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 Post subject: Re: A Raptor redux. Or Peter is not the only crazy dreamer..
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2021, 14:04 
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So there is nothing impossible about what is proposed here.
It was done 25 years ago without modern computer assistance.
Rutan boomerang:
All composite.
Pressurized Twin.
http://rutanboomerang.com/technical-specifications/

2,370 lbs empty.
1870lb useful.
865lbs payload with full fuel.


264Kn cruise. 1500nm range w reserve.
210 kn cruise 2100nm range w reserve.

A clean composite airframe running in the flight levels can do everything promised.

2000lbs lighter/smaller than my Aerostar with basically the same performance.
I'll be watching these guys with anticipation...

Given that there are just a ton of engineering details.*
Just the step up to retractable gear and presurization is a bunch of work.
I for one hope they are successful.

*For example the Rutan boomerang was designed to be pressurized,
but the pressurization system was never completed and as of the Mojave flyin 3 or so years ago it had never been presurized in flight.


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 Post subject: Re: A Raptor redux. Or Peter is not the only crazy dreamer..
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2021, 14:45 
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Joined: 12/10/07
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Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
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Username Protected wrote:
I want one...

Specially going up to 35k feet
I really hope they will throw in a nice looking bridge for the same price. Been wanting to get either the Golden Gate, or the bay bridge.


yeah, we are 99% sure we can get to 35,000 ft
100% sure we can get to 28,000 ft.
we only need 3.1 pressure difference to get to 35,000 and 15 PSI
our engines are 330 HP engines flat rated to 260 - so we can carry full power to 20,000 ft, and only need 65% at 35,000 ft. and that is still only 50% load on the turbo.
But most won't go over 28,000 - and they will get the "small" (still large, but smaller than what is needed for 35,000 Ft) turbo that we know can do that already.

I'm curious how you plan to cool an engine making 260 HP power at 35,000 (or even 28,000). Most turbocharged engines have cooling problems at altitudes well below that. You can make all the power you want with a well designed forced induction system but carrying off the heat in an engine that's only 25-30% efficient with thin air is quite a more of a technical challenge. If your engine is making 260HP you need to dump 650-800 Kilowatts (2.2-2.7 million BTU/Hr) somehow, that's a lot of heat.
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 Post subject: Re: A Raptor redux. Or Peter is not the only crazy dreamer..
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2021, 15:01 
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weight is everything in an airplane. we are shooting for 2200 lbs empty - and if we cannot hit that, it will just decrease our 1600 lb useful load by the amount we are over.

You need to seriously re-think this position. You are 100% correct in the first sentence above; "weight is everything in an airplane". Your target of 1600 useful is already low. This isn't a piston single, it's a high performance twin. You need to be able to fill the tanks, pack in four people and bags for a week in the Bahamas, including golf. That's not 1600 lbs. I'm not just dreaming, my Baron does exactly that, but it has a useful load that's within 300 lbs of your BEW.

You need to set a higher standard for your Useful Load, and then guard it with your life.

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 Post subject: Re: A Raptor redux. Or Peter is not the only crazy dreamer..
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2021, 15:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm curious how you plan to cool an engine making 260 HP power at 35,000 (or even 28,000). Most turbocharged engines have cooling problems at altitudes well below that. You can make all the power you want with a well designed forced induction system but carrying off the heat in an engine that's only 25-30% efficient with thin air is quite a more of a technical challenge. If your engine is making 260HP you need to dump 650-800 Kilowatts (2.2-2.7 million BTU/Hr) somehow, that's a lot of heat.


I don't think cooling is an issue.
No problems at all. Piece of cake

If you can get a plane with 260HP at 35k feet , 4 people with pressurization, the rest is easy.
Just bring a couple of bags of ice, and drop them through the cowling into the engine bay.

Just send the deposit and we will explain the rest to you.

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 Post subject: Re: A Raptor redux. Or Peter is not the only crazy dreamer..
PostPosted: 09 Sep 2021, 17:38 
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What are the planes that the manufacturer already has in production? Are those the 400 and 200?

The 400 according to the website has roughly the specs of a 22T - which is great. But its in the same ballpark as other modern aircraft.

If you compare say a 2021 SR22 and a 1968 V35 bonanza, the performance numbers are surprisingly similar for over half a century of development. Subsonic aerodynamics has been well understood for a long time now. Interestingly even the switch to modern materials didn't make all that much of a difference in weight. The SR22 is a better plane than a V35, but its not a LOT better.

What lets the 600 get so far beyond the state of the art relative to the companies previous planes? The shape looks very clean, but as others have pointed out, cooling turbo engines at high altitude is very difficult. Most turbocharged piston planes are engine temperature limited at high altitude - and end up with lots of extra cooling drag. (and of course the intercoolers need yet more air for cooling).

Pusher props have been tried many times, but usually manufacturers settle on a conventional arrangement, probably due to a combination of better cooling and not wanting the props operating in the disturbed air off of he wings.






Username Protected wrote:
Wow, I guess I should sell my 340 and get one of these. same useful load, 2/3 the price, 2/3 the fuel, 50% faster, twice the range... and hey, they already have a wing, so it's basically a done deal.


And the company building the plane has already done 2 other models of planes - and the engineer has done 2 other planes himself, one getting type certified, and 3 others he has worked on, with a masters in aeronautical engineering from Cal Poly. And i have been successful in all of my businesses over the 21 years i have been self employed. So isn't done done, but yeah, pretty close.

340's are good metal heavy planes. We are doing composites, and weight is everything in an airplane. we are shooting for 2200 lbs empty - and if we cannot hit that, it will just decrease our 1600 lb useful load by the amount we are over. The engines weigh about the same as a cirrus engine and chute - and they are at 2300 with lots of extra steel and parts we won't be using.


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 Post subject: Re: A Raptor redux. Or Peter is not the only crazy dreamer..
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2021, 07:35 
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 Post subject: Re: A Raptor redux. Or Peter is not the only crazy dreamer..
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2021, 16:18 
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Thanks Max, you helped me figure out how to subscribe :-)

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 Post subject: Re: A Raptor redux. Or Peter is not the only crazy dreamer..
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2021, 00:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks Max, you helped me figure out how to subscribe :-)

How do you Subscribe? All I see is "Unsubscribe topic".


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 Post subject: Re: A Raptor redux. Or Peter is not the only crazy dreamer..
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2021, 16:55 
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Bob,

You just did :-)

Now you can use the "View Your Posts" link to see if there are any updates.

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