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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2021, 18:18 
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I remember not considering the V due to thinking it was too big, too much fuel, etc. But on further analysis, it really isn't. The V has been described as the best legacy Citation and I think that may be true.

Mike C.


To ask the question the other way, why not an Ultra? I don't see any prices listed on controller. A good II seems to be around $900?


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2021, 18:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
To ask the question the other way, why not an Ultra?

I looked at Ultras pretty seriously. Two main issues stopped me, which were HT blades and autopilot integration.

The JT15D-5D engines use a different, more exotic HT blade which seems to last only about 3 HSI cycles. They cost $5600/each and there are 71 of them in each engine. Do the math, works out to $150/hour just for HT blades. Also, no used blades out there because the -5D blades are unique to that engine.

The JT15D-5A engine uses the same HT blade as the -4 engines. They are $2500/each and seem to last 6 or more HSI cycles. There are also used ones out there since you can find -4 engine parts. So the cost for HT blades is dramatically less, $33/hour.

What the -5D engine got you was no step climb to FL450. The V won't quite do that, the Ultra will, at gross weight ISA.

The other issue is the Ultra comes with the Honeywell Primus 1000 system with the stupidly failure prone and expensive CRT screens. You can't swap those out for Garmin panels because the FD/AP is built into the display boxes. Ultras need to wait until the Garmin autopilot is certified to get a full panel upgrade. I didn't want to wait, or risk the autopilot never shows up, so I got the V with the separate SPZ 500 autopilot. Now my panel is fully modern. The Primus 1000 is is also very heavy, like 250 pounds.

When/if Garmin gets an autopilot for my V, I will upgrade to it then, but the SPZ 500 is working well enough.

Mike C.

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Last edited on 13 Sep 2021, 00:40, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2021, 20:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
Stagflation came to mind as well. But it may not be a traditional stagflation. Seems to be more of an acute version where the cause is easily identifiable and (hopefully) temporary: Covid.

This is the Fed's story and they are sticking to it. However, this assumes that there is no change in consumer and business behavior and we will go right back to the way we behaved pre-COVID. I do not think the Fed has it right.

Businesses were caught out when China locked down. They will not want that to happen again. They are going to increase inventories and shorten supply chains. While this is good for US workers, it will increase costs that must be passed on.

Likewise, wages tend to be sticky. The recent wage increases will need to be passed on as well.

Further, consumers are seeing shortages for the first time in a long time. This will change their behavior and they will start to overbuy when things are in stock. This will also have inflationary consequences - shortages beget more shortages which reinforces the behavior in a vicious cycle.

But at the end of the day, we don't know what will happen. We are all just speculating. However, I believe that getting the inflation/deflation call correct is the only thing that matters when it comes to preserving your wealth over the next 10 years. So I am spending a great deal of time watching, reading, and learning.


Chris I agree with you.

And I think we will look back on the last couple of years and the next several as one of those major turning points in history that made fundamental differences in how we live, work and behave.

While it is too early to know how it will all turn out it's becoming increasingly clear that Covid is fostering, or speeding up, permanent changes in a variety of ways.

Internationally the U.S. has been pulling back into our traditional isolationism over the last two decades. While there is a lot of finger pointing and noise both political parties have been a party to this. A big reason is our diminished, gone really, dependence on oil from the middle east. Fatigue with policing the world - we we explicitly agreed to do at Bretton Woods in 1943 - coupled with a reduction in our own needs for world trade continues to drive the trend

Added to that, of course, is the global issue of employment but specifically the U.S. issue of employment that will provide for traditional levels of employment and income which requires that we do more than each other's laundry. These political pressures, along with technology (which continues to disrupt) and manufacturing developments were already creating pressure for reshoring which Covid has only increased.

Fundamental societal changes often take decades to develop and we're living in a period where many of the currents and forces that have been with us for a generation or so are solidifying into permanent change. The rise of the Hispanic population as an example, which has led to more marginalization of blacks is a part. The changes in what constitutes the "family" is equally profound and a result of many years of struggle with mainstreaming the gay population, the consequences of a high divorce rate over a couple of generations, loosening social morays around sex and a very consequential set of tax policy decisions dating to the "Great Society" days of the 1960's among other drivers are bearing a harvest of fruit no one knew we were cultivating.

The Fed, the federal government and other players have been experimenting with fiscal and monetary policy for a long time. The 2008 crisis emboldened some of this and the apparent (to date) consequences of 2020 and 2021 decisions will also foster and encourage permanent change in how money works systemically though I don't think we've found a way (as I said in an earlier post) to neutralize the laws of money. I do think we've changed, rapidly, in the minds of many who may not have changed absent the crisis, the way a huge swath of the population views money and who it belongs to. Entitlement is just beginning to enter a new phase in the thinking of the thoughtless.

It's clear that the way we work is changing permanently. That will have follow on impacts in how we live. And Covid is just serving as a catalyst to speed up change. For example, one of my life "goals" has been to live and work wherever I want. I've been trying to have zoom meetings for 5 years (but hardly anyone had ever heard of it, have had a telepresence robot for a similar period which allows me to attend meetings and even roll around my office, from anywhere. Covid is making all of this commonplace. Yes, there are many, many workplace challenges but they were already latent. Covid just brought them to the forefront or sped them up.

All of these forces will manifest in the next decade. Like all periods of fundamental change there will be winners and losers. Everyone understands this innately which is part of what drives the hysteria about everything.

These kinds of changes, as I said earlier, are constant in history. And that is a subject of which the overwhelming part of the population is virtually completely ignorant. Almost no one can see beyond a few weeks or months. Few can see beyond, much less plan for, years into the future. Human beings are always caught up in the present. But there are always those who either innately, or through careful study, seek to see the evolving patterns and prepare for them. These are always among the winners writ large.

When I look at the swirling currents of change I'm not frightened. I'm fascinated. These changes are constant throughout history but many of the world's past population didn't get to leave through such a period. I don't know how this is all going to turn out, though I see (or believe I do) how some of it will. But knowing it's natural, and that I can't impact the forces at work, I can avoid wringing my hands, or worse become hysterical as many have over the last couple of decades, and just watch.
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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2021, 21:22 
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The Citation V is definitely the best legacy Citation, the V still has strong resale because it is a desirable charter aircraft. That won’t change for many years, so a V is likely a much better long term investment.

And it’s a lot faster… and it carries more… and it’s newer.

The only strong argument for a 550 is price.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 09:10 
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With the Garmin upgrade in the 550/560 do you have to ballast the nose with the weight reduction?

Chip-


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 09:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
With the Garmin upgrade in the 550/560 do you have to ballast the nose with the weight reduction?

Depends. Using my airplane as an example:

The prior owner (with the original equipment) complained bitterly about a nose heavy aircraft and thus not being able to use the nose baggage and having to assign seats towards the rear of the airplane. In a worst case situation, they had to ballast the rear baggage to use all seats up front. which meant they operated with reduced fuel.

With my Garmin upgrade, my plane lost 380 lbs of weight and the CG moved back significantly. When I fly crew only (two people up front), I need 50 lbs in the nose. When I fly solo, I need 200 lbs in the nose. The worst case is empty fuel. If I have 3 people on board, 2 up front and third anywhere else, no ballast required.

My ballast system is plastic bins with landscape rocks. A 0.5 cu ft bag of landscape rocks is 50 lbs, and costs $4 at Home Depot. I generally have 150 lbs of rocks and 50 lbs of misc stuff in the nose (tools, spares), meeting my 200 lbs. If I am someplace where I need the 150 lbs, I can empty the rocks. If I need the ballast back, I can buy that at a local home improvement store.

Steel shot bags (Wake Ballast type) are expensive ($70 for 50 lbs) and thus you don't feel like you can dump them. Water is a bad option due to low density and freezing potential, plus leakage potential. Also, not that easy to load up 150 lbs of water without a hose.

An advantage of rearward CG is the plane is fast. Since all seats are forward of the CG (except the toilet seat, which I don't use), you want to start tail heavy. I can load all seats, and have 200 lbs in the nose, and stay within envelope, so I think the CG is just about perfect.

One change I am investigating is moving the oxygen bottle. Presently, it is WAY back in the tail. If I move it to in the nose, it would be about the equivalent of 60 lbs of ballast up front, or a net 60 lbs reduction in typical operating weight. The Ultra had the oxygen bottle up front, so I know this can be done.

I am expecting to lose about another 100 lbs when/if the Garmin GFC 600 autopilot is approved. The boxes I can remove then are:

FD-500 flight director
SP-200 autopilot computer
Pitch servo
Roll servo
Yaw servo
Pitch trim servo
FD mode control panel
AP control panel
GAD 43e adapter
GAD 42 adapter
ADC-602 air data adapter
Radar altimeter antenna
Radar altimeter
AC inverter #1
AC inverter #2
AC fail over relays

I'd be adding back:

GFC 600 autopilot
Pitch servo
Roll servo
Yaw servo
Pitch trim servo

I'd remove the radar altimeter because the G700 TXi provides GPS derived AGL readouts that serve the same purpose. The radar altimeter is required for the SPZ-500 because it uses that for gain scheduling on approaches (which I find weird).

I'd remove the AC inverters because the only AC devices on the plane are the FD and AP boxes, so there are no AC devices left, thus no need for any AC inverters.

I'm a believer in not having equipment I don't need. That's lighter, simpler, and cheaper.

Also on my list is the CVR. I have a GA100 which weighs 24 lbs and using a mechanical tape loop (think 8 track tape). There is a digital version, FA2100, which is drop in (same connector) and weighs only 8.3 lbs. Someday that tape loop is going to wear out, so this would solve that problem and save 16 lbs in the tail. Not much, but every bit adds up. My goal is to have the lightest Citation V there is. I'm at 9243 lbs empty right now, which is pretty good, and 9100 lbs might be reachable after Garmin autopilot and other changes.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 12:48 
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I love it - I love stripping needless weight off everything and this has real world advantages unlike the 50 grams I saved going to wireless shifting on my bike.

Too bad you can't just add a fuel container up front and fill it/drain it as needed. s you burn fuel does the CG shift much?

What weather radar is in the nose and did you upgrade that as well when you did the panel upgrades?

Chip-


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 14:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
I love it - I love stripping needless weight off everything and this has real world advantages

Yes, it does. Less runway, less fuel burn, more useful load, less things to repair.

Quote:
Too bad you can't just add a fuel container up front and fill it/drain it as needed.

Doesn't help if I ever intend to use the fuel. I would have to transfer it before main tanks go dry, and then my empty fuel CG is too far aft. Might as well be water, which is denser and doesn't catch fire.

Quote:
s you burn fuel does the CG shift much?

Depends on where you are in the envelope. If you are near the aft CG limit, empty fuel moves aft. If you are near the forward CG limit, empty fuel moves forward. Fuel is pretty much at the middle of the envelope, which is ideal.

Quote:
What weather radar is in the nose and did you upgrade that as well when you did the panel upgrades?

Installed GWX 75 with the upgrade. Have not used it a lot, but seems quite nice.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 15:20 
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Take out unused seats; the seats are rather heavy?


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 16:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
Installed GWX 75 with the upgrade. Have not used it a lot, but seems quite nice.


I have that unit and it is fantastic. It has many more colors and it is much easier to see cell shape and estimate severity, and how it is changing, than a typical 4 color. Ironically I think in a jet the quality of the radar is less important. In the low/mid 20s it gets a workout.


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 17:31 
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Take out unused seats; the seats are rather heavy?

Per my factory delivery file, seats were 44.5 lbs each for most of them, 42.0 lbs for the two rear ones. May be more now after they got redone at some point. 7 seats add up to 307 lbs. But I do need seats.

The galley was 103 lbs, so that's something that could be reduced. This will make me more tail heavy, though. Even if I have to add weight up front, that has longer arm, so it still reduces overall weight. The galley is needlessly complex with heaters, drains, etc.

A surprisingly high weight is the carpet, 106.9 lbs from the factory. Seems like that could be a lighter kind, no?

Flushing toilet is 45 lbs. Not too keen on the flushing part with the fluid servicing. I will look into something else at some point, preferably an option not involving fluid.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 17:39 
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Username Protected wrote:


Flushing toilet is 45 lbs. Not too keen on the flushing part with the fluid servicing. I will look into something else at some point, preferably an option not involving fluid.

Mike C.


Can it flush into a trash bag type arrangement?
I use a double doodie bag and smelleze. Benefit is unlimited amount of bathroom 'space' and easy disposal after each flight. It's coagulant.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 17:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can it flush into a trash bag type arrangement?

No, here is what it looks like:

[youtube]https://youtu.be/EzqqP86J6Mw[/youtube]

There's a clean fluid compartment and a waste compartment in the removable part.

Doesn't seem like this is really any better than what you propose but my fixture isn't seemingly compatible with the doodie bag concept. I would need to change things somehow.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 18:55 
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If you’re strapped into the flight deck and a passenger has to go, you’re going to be very thankful for that cumbersome system and it’s ease of use for the passenger seeking relief

Call it what you want, analyze it however you will, passengers like a flushing button


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2021, 19:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you’re strapped into the flight deck and a passenger has to go, you’re going to be very thankful for that cumbersome system and it’s ease of use for the passenger seeking relief

Call it what you want, analyze it however you will, passengers like a flushing button


Pilatus has a flush button.

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