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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 04:05 
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I don't need some half wit taking 15% to do very little. All the hard work still comes back to the owner.
Mike C.


I believe that ALL brokers should be QUALIFIED A&P/IAs AND PILOTS.

I started brokering aircraft when I was performing Pre-Buy Surveys for buyers and time & time again, the so-called brokers wasted a lot of everybody's time and worse, they often flat-out mis-represented the acft .

Chip - Do you meet these qualifications ?

PS: 15 % ???? WTF ! I only charge 7% and that's WITH the above QUALIFICATIONS .

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 06:39 
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The certificate you hold does not qualify you as an expert in the aircraft you are brokering.
Actually, it can provide a false sense of security for the buyer. I have seen many A&P pilots sell aircraft that don’t have a clue, or, don’t want to.

In the end, the buyer is responsible for what he, or, she bought. Do your research. Understand the world you are walking into and then expect the unexpected because it will happen. If anything bad, or, good happens after the fact it’s all on the buyer.

If you don’t like what you are looking at, go somewhere else. If something happens you never anticipated after a through pre-buy and exhaustive research by your expert A&P, IA, pilot broker, well, welcome to the world. It happens all of the time. There are no guarantees. Quit crying, pull up your big boy pants and get on with it.

There’s to many pampered weenies out there who expect everything to be perfect and handed to them on a silver platter. “Buyer beware.” Memorize it. It will serve you well.


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 09:17 
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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So they cold call you, you become the product, you provide them data, they waste your time, but it saves you time in the future?

No. Just no.

Cold calling for this information is just stealing your time. There’s no defending this. Their business model is built on you providing them with data for free and wasting your time. And then wasting my time because they think every other airplane owner is like you and as forthcoming and they will press on.

No. Just No.

Chip-


I wouldn’t necessarily say I’m defending JetNet, they’re a vendor, they provide a service for us. Their software interface is archaic and slow.

However, I do feel it’s necessary to explain how they get their information. They don’t amass this information from owners, that would be an extraordinary waste of time for the owner and in many cases the information would be faulty, not intentional as Mike proposed, but simply because most of the aircraft we are talking about belong to non-pilot owners and often they have no clue what the total time is, much less anything else.

These services track an aircraft from new, the information is updated, primarily when the aircraft is advertised for sale. They do call owners a couple of times a year and ask if they have any updates, they aren’t looking to waste anyone’s time… they are looking for owners who WANT to update the info. Again, the vast majority of turbine aircraft are pro flown, these owners have may be motivated to receive inquiries about their airplane. The pro-pilots on here can tell you how often the owner sells or replaces the airplane and the pilot had no idea. It is very common for an aircraft to sell off market and in most cases, one of these services facilitated the sale.

There are a lot of reasons someone might want to sell off market, just this year we’ve bought off market airplanes because of death of a business partner, elimination of the entire flight department, divorce and an upgrade that the pilot was unaware of because the owner wanted a new airplane and pilot, but didn’t want the pilot to know he was selling the airplane until the deal was done.

I’m obviously thankful that these companies exist, our business model wouldn’t work without them. It’s important to note that these companies have spent decades tracking aircraft and building their database. They don’t typically get all of the data from a phone call to the owner, they get most of it from public sources. To say they simply get info by wasting someone’s time and then resell it simply isn’t true. They sell access to information they’ve spent hundreds of thousands of man hours collecting.

We all get phone calls that interrupt our day. I’m not interested in talking about care warranties, so I hang up. If someone calls about airplanes I’ll talk!

When one of my clients mentions getting calls on their aircraft I always say “I can call and have them remove your contact info” but I can’t remember the last time someone said yes. I guess me and my clients are weird… we just like to talk about airplanes.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 09:18 
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Both Bruce and Chip have been kind enough to speak with me during my 6 month quest for another airplane. They, and others, are knowledgeable, honest and competent brokers. Unfortunately, men like these are in the minority in this industry.

I have pursued multiple airplanes during this, so far, unsuccessful quest, and, almost without exception, the brokers involved have been, to be kind, inept. I cannot believe that an aircraft owner can be so completely irresponsible to hire these people.

But then, I've never had a very high opinion of pilots either. :bugeye:

Jg


Thanks John!

The pleasure was mine!

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It’s a brave new world, one where most have forgotten the old ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 09:24 
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:pray:
Username Protected wrote:
I don't need some half wit taking 15% to do very little. All the hard work still comes back to the owner.
Mike C.


I believe that ALL brokers should be QUALIFIED A&P/IAs AND PILOTS.

I started brokering aircraft when I was performing Pre-Buy Surveys for buyers and time & time again, the so-called brokers wasted a lot of everybody's time and worse, they often flat-out mis-represented the acft .

Chip - Do you meet these qualifications ?

PS: 15 % ???? WTF ! I only charge 7% and that's WITH the above QUALIFICATIONS .


No Sir! That would be physically impossible.

We represent buyers of all King Air, Pilatus and TBM models, most Citations, all Hawkers and Premiers as well as some Learjets, Gulfstreams, Falcons and Challengers.

To stay proficient in all of those aircraft would leave zero time to actually do what I do.

Fortunately, I do have qualified A&P’s and Pilot’s to call on when their services are needed. For instance, the test pilots we use are the most qualified in the industry, it isn’t about me… it’s my team.

I’m with you on the 15%… geez! It’s been my experience that percentages only work when selling airplanes that are sub $1M

Obviously, we’re representing buyers not sellers, so we don’t use a percentage at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 09:43 
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Chip, how many buyers do you sell to that aren’t pilots?
I know that in today airplane market, many pilot buyers have no clue what they are getting into; oblivious of maintenance and care.


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 09:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
Chip, how many buyers do you sell to that aren’t pilots?
I know that in today airplane market, many pilot buyers have no clue what they are getting into; oblivious of maintenance and care.


It varies from year to year and I haven’t done the math lately, but probably 50% and yes, we are seeing more buyers who are new to aviation and have very little knowledge or experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 10:06 
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Joined: 08/09/11
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Username Protected wrote:
So they cold call you, you become the product, you provide them data, they waste your time, but it saves you time in the future?

No. Just no.

Cold calling for this information is just stealing your time. There’s no defending this. Their business model is built on you providing them with data for free and wasting your time. And then wasting my time because they think every other airplane owner is like you and as forthcoming and they will press on.

No. Just No.

Chip-


So you’d rather have 100 calls instead of 1. I see. Makes sense. :doh:

But I get it. This is a tangible privacy/time waster to complain about. In general cold calls are as annoying as car warranty calls. Meanwhile, you fly around with ADS-B that tracks your every move to a foot or less with your 12” numbers now attached to your transponder while google and the nsa know what you ate for breakfast. But there’s nothing you can do about any of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 12:42 
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Chip - Do you meet these qualifications ?

No Sir! That would be physically impossible.

We represent buyers of all King Air, Pilatus and TBM models, most Citations, all Hawkers and Premiers as well as some Learjets, Gulfstreams, Falcons and Challengers.

To stay proficient in all of those aircraft would leave zero time to actually do what I do.

Have you ever been proficient in ANY of the aircraft you represent, at ANY time?

You had an opportunity here to be completely forthright and simply say you aren't a pilot. But you dodged the question by making it artificially bigger and saying that would be an unreasonable standard, but leaving it unsaid that you aren't actually a pilot or mechanic of any kind, at least not that the FAA airmen database indicates.

I also suggest that "to stay proficient" implies you were proficient at one time, which fits with your general attempt to "pass" as a pilot implicitly. I imagine a fair number of BT readers think you are a pilot.

I'll note that your website claims "transparency" as one of your company's virtues, but not being explicitly clear about your qualifications seems contrary to that. When dealing with these sorts of transactions, everybody's radar is hyper sensitive to ANY subtle indication things are not exactly as they are being presented.

Chip, you don't need to be a pilot to have credibility, and you are losing it trying to halfway pass as one.

Mike C.
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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 12:50 
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Last edited on 05 Dec 2021, 16:51, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 13:16 
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Mike C,
That seems a bit judgmental to me. Interesting how we can interpret things so different. I thought Chip clearly answered the question (No Sir!), and went on to explain why.

I also focus my energy, time, toward what I do best. I pay others to do what they do best. I figured out that I can be bigger and better when I recognize my limitations. It’s not a fault. It’s an awakening. I really suck at multitasking. When I finally came to understand that and employee others to do what I shouldn’t, business blossomed.

Different strokes.


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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 13:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
: No Sir! That would be physically impossible.

We represent buyers of all King Air, Pilatus and TBM models, most Citations, all Hawkers and Premiers as well as some Learjets, Gulfstreams, Falcons and Challengers.

To stay proficient in all of those aircraft would leave zero time to actually do what I do.


Not at all physically impossible, Sir. It's called Specialization . In my case, it's SEP/MEP and TPs. Can't be an expert in everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 14:55 
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
I’ve been abundantly clear that I am not a pilot, I’ve never pretended to be a pilot.

I’m also not a mechanic, or an attorney, or an escrow agent, or a researcher, or a webdesigner or a CPA. But, I have all of these people on my team.

You’ll find that at some point in the size and complexity of the aircraft that very few professionals who handle these transactions are actually pilots. In fact it’s almost linear, with someone brokering small aircraft all but required to be a pilot, all the way to those who work as OEM sales reps for Gulfstream or Dassault rarely being pilots and very rarely being proficient in what they sell.

I do agree that if you are selling pistons and turboprops to owner pilots, it helps to be a pilot. For me, representing buyers, it’s the process that matters. No one cares if I can fly a Citation XLS, they care that I can find one, negotiate the purchase, provide and schedule the test pilots, have a relationship with the maintenance facility and manage the airplane through the prepurchase inspections, as well as handle the closing with the title company. It would probably be more beneficial for me to have gone to law school than flight school.

Though my knowledge of King Airs exceeds most, I’m not an expert at anything except buying airplanes.

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Last edited on 05 Dec 2021, 16:19, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 15:26 
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If you had a front row seat to the damage the dishonest one’s inflict, you’d understand my statement.

At some level of value and complexity, it becomes very rare to sell an airplane without the help of a broker. The same is true of boats and for that matter buildings, businesses or homes. The honest guys take care of their clients, the crooks screw their client and the buyer. It’s amazing to me that sales of aircraft are not regulated.

Where else can i find more info on 'are the backbone of aviation'?

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 Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2021, 15:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
: No Sir! That would be physically impossible.

We represent buyers of all King Air, Pilatus and TBM models, most Citations, all Hawkers and Premiers as well as some Learjets, Gulfstreams, Falcons and Challengers.

To stay proficient in all of those aircraft would leave zero time to actually do what I do.


Not at all physically impossible, Sir. It's called Specialization . In my case, it's SEP/MEP and TPs. Can't be an expert in everything.


You have no idea how much I would love to specialize in just one model of aircraft, but I run a company that caters to and builds lifelong relationships with aircraft owners, when they upgrade so do we.

Ironically the current market has caused us to expand even more, we just closed a Cessna Grand Caravan, am I an expert? Nope, but I have someone who is.

I run company with five employees (including me) and about a dozen other folks with various skills that work for us regularly on a contract basis. Who knows, maybe someday I’ll sell Jet Acquisitions or turn it over to one of my kids. I can be the Pilatus guy, and refer everyone else out. I’d probably even have time to get a Special Issuance medical, complete my flight training and fly them myself.
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