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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 01:13 
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Joined: 06/28/09
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
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$1250/hr is really pretty good for a 4 ship flight department with 3 FT pilots. As I said earlier, you currently have the best plane for the mission. You'd save some money by going piston but you'll definitely lose dispatch reliability. You'll shave off a hundred bucks or two by going single engine turbine but you'll you'll lose the beast though most any weather capability of the KA, have to sell them on it, and then incur that huge initial CAPEX. Basically you should be happy with your current setup, convert them all to Blackhawk as the engines timeout, and do an GFC600/TXI upgrade one by one... then be happy with your KA fleet without thought about saving a hundred bucks or so an hour OPEX and remember the payload you're hauling is probably 5k+ per hour per person. :D

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Last edited on 01 Aug 2021, 11:15, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 01:54 
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Joined: 06/07/12
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Location: Addison, TX
The KA90 is working well for the OP but they're getting old causing unpredictable Mx issues and it's time for a change.

They already know a KA is perfect for the mission.

A new 90 no longer exists but they'll sell you a 260 which is better by 170.

What am I missing?


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 08:30 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
A new 90 no longer exists but they'll sell you a 260 which is better by 170.

What am I missing?

$7M price tag.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 08:45 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Ran a few numbers for a made up 213 nm flight:

MU2M: 54 min, 603 lbs fuel
BEC90: 66 min, 727 lbs fuel
BE200GT: 55 min, 761 lbs fuel
501SP: 51 min, 1162 lbs fuel
560V: 47 min, 1191 lbs fuel

These are using whatever models fltplan.com has, I didn't check accuracy. Using the "advanced method" for fuel burn which has been more accurate in my experience.

The MU2 will save you about 20 gallons over the King Airs, the jets cost about 60 gallons more than the King Airs.

Kind of surprised the 560V does the job for nearly what the 501SP does. Better climb rate and higher speed mostly cancel higher fuel flow.

Comparing C90 to 560V, you save about an hour on a 3 leg day costing you $700 more in fuel, say.

Given this is a pro pilot situation, seems like the fuel cost difference here is relatively small on the scale of the operation.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 09:13 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
Given roughly 1000 cycles/year for the fleer that seems like a significant cost to account

Consumables plus depreciation won’t be trivial


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 09:20 
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Joined: 01/11/11
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Company: FUSION
Aircraft: B300ER B200 C90 DHC6
Username Protected wrote:
Perfect..... Chute, I can think of a contender....
Phenom 100 / 100E / 100EV will beat anything else!

Even pre-owned!


Last edited on 01 Aug 2021, 10:38, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 09:47 
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Joined: 09/05/09
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Location: Small Town, NC
Phenom is 4x the capital.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 11:01 
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Joined: 12/30/09
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Username Protected wrote:
Perfect..... Chute, I can think of a contender....
Phenom 100 / 100E / 100EV will beat anything else!

Even pre-owned!


Not to mention 3-4x the acquisition costs and NO way it will do it with the contaminated runways mentioned - No TR’s are a show stopper.

Brad

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 12:56 
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
https://www.nextantaerospace.com/g90xt/

Bet you could get a good deal on 4 of these in a row


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 14:04 
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Joined: 12/16/07
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Company: Real Estate development
Location: Addison -North Dallas(ADS), Texas
Aircraft: In between
Anyone know how many of those have actually been delivered?

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 16:55 
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Joined: 09/19/13
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Location: Austin Tx
Aircraft: 1997, BE-200
Dear Thomas,
Here are some questions I have about your operation.

Do to the location of KLAR, do you cover cities in CO or just Wyoming?
If you just cover Wyoming, then three airplanes cover Eastern, Central, and Western Wyoming, pie shaped out 200nm?

Do the C90s go one location and sit all day, or do they make two stops and sit at second stop all day?

If the airplanes are going to one city and sitting all day, you may need to increase the utilization of airplane, by adding high density seating.

AvFab makes that kind of seating for the C90. (I have no relationship with them) But you get seven seats in the C90 with their seating and with the use of copilot seat, you could have eight pax seats.

That lets you have a good mix of paxs for two stops to satisfy the mission, and increase the utilization of that airframe. (5 and 3 or 4 and 4)

Maybe you try the high density seating in one airframe and see how it works.

I do like the idea of using Blackhawk engines and other Raisbeck mods, and standardization of the flight decks.

This high density seating is can be use in the B200 also, but deicing C90 is so much easier than B200 in the winter time.

I think the King Air is the best two engine airframe, C90s what you have now or combo of C90 and B200 or older B300. A balance of capital cost vs modification cost, and how the company handles depreciation cost for tax purposes.

Those are my thoughts.
Larry Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 16:58 
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Like others above.........................I think you already have the perfect aircraft stable.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 18:59 
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Location: Amarillo, Texas
Aircraft: P210N
Not the same thing but I run 12 HVAC service vans. We have 14. One of the extras is a designated breakdown van for when one of the twelve is in the garage for unexpected breakdowns like alternator, starter, transmission...

The other extra van is the “annual van.” Once a year each van is pulled out of service for a few weeks for cosmetic touchup, upholstery repair, general service, minor repairs like door locks, hinges, dents, etc... During that time the service tech drives the annual-van. That tech gets his van back and then we pull another van out of service for a few weeks and “annual” it. We constantly have a van in annual.

Buy an extra C90A for backup. Keep it in top condition.
When a grounded C90A is waiting for a part there’s a fair chance there’ll be another second breakdown. The second breakdown might need a part that the first breakdown can provide, or vice versa.

You will increase your fleet’s hourly expense rate but you’ll also have a much better chance of having four planes flying or ready to fly. Your aviation staff is already familiar with the C90A so no learning curve. They already know who to call if they need help. They also already know who to stay away from. With the backup airplane aviation problems will be much less urgent and time consuming for you and your partners.

That’s my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 10:23 
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Joined: 12/19/09
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
WOW! Lots of great opinions and further questions.
Definitely gives some food for thought for our flight department.
Our fleet of 4 KA’s is already set up as a “1 spare” deal. We rarely fly all three in one day but it does happen several times a month. Pretty much never 4 since I started using my MU-2 two to three times per week.
We could certainly re-visit the question of insurance with an MU-2. But as several have said, not all of our pilots are comfortable with that idea. Our chief pilot has time in an MU-2 and views them favorably. Another is indifferent, and one is opposed…called it a “lawn dart.” We have been progressively dropping our coverage due to cost and available coverage, but we are at $10M, so still pretty high for single pilot prop ops, even when corporate.
One of our planes is already Raisbeck converted to a -135. It does well, but for our short legs, not much better than the -21’s and overhauls are much more expensive.
Yes, the KA’s go out on location and sit until the day is done, or about 1/2 the time, they move to a second city for an afternoon clinic and then return home in the evening. We do have docs double up on the planes (only if they are going to the same city) but the dead-head legs to drop off, return home and get another doc then repeat in the evening doesn’t really work as the down time for the docs defeats the purpose of the aircraft to some extent (other than when roads are closed).
The Vison won’t work for several reasons…we looked at the Eclipse several years ago and on hot summer days, with two docs, it would not work either.
We have strongly considered bringing maintenance in-house and that may be the solution with an investment in spare parts. The docs are all pretty comfortable with the KA’s.
I doubt the piston route will work. We started the flight department with a C RG-182, then Bonanza, then Baron. The Baron had an engine failure on takeoff which freaked out the pax and they traded it on our first KA just a few weeks later…never back to pistons. Also, they watched me with the Aerostar which had two engine failures and two cautionary shut-downs (due to ice obstructing elements of the engine) in 8 years. That, along with the fact that our KA’s have also lost an engine with catastrophic failure but no lost of containment (thankfully) means that this group is unlikely to go back to singles in this rural environment with few airfields and poor weather.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and suggestions. I’ll report back on further developments.

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Thomas


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 11:02 
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
Username Protected wrote:

maintenance in-house ..... with an investment in spare parts.


That's the answer. Your plane fits the mission, you just need the plane available more.

I'd even venture to say sell the -135 (great time to sell) and use the proceeds to get another -21 and build the spares inventory.


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