25 Apr 2024, 02:36 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 16:31 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Just shows how few new options there are in this field. Basically King Air's and Avanti's and that's it. Avanti? GAMA shows no deliveries in 2020, so it is effectively dead. Quote: The twin turboprop has gone the way of the dodo. Cessna SkyCourier is a new twin turboprop. GAMA stats show 62 multiengine turboprops delivered in 2020. All of them were King Airs. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 17:15 |
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Joined: 12/30/09 Posts: 868 Post Likes: +638
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Username Protected wrote: I think a 501 or a 550 is an excellent choice for this mission. Not with 5000’ contaminated runways. With those conditions this screams turboprop. Brad
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 17:56 |
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Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4573 Post Likes: +3298
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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I would not go to a slower aircraft, it would take away from the productivity of those on board.
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 18:08 |
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Joined: 08/03/20 Posts: 45 Post Likes: +35
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
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King Air is the right machine if two engines are required. PC12 would be my choice if you can get past the veto. Any kind of jet will cost you more. Even my Citation Mustang costs that much per hour at low altitudes, and that’s figuring zero expense for the pilot. Bigger Citation including legacy will cost you more. Turboprop was made for this mission.
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 18:17 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I think a 501 or a 550 is an excellent choice for this mission. Not with 5000’ contaminated runways. Book numbers for a V says it can do it. Even on ice at 5000 ft elevation. Surprising, but that's what the book says.
If the jet saves 15 minutes per leg, that adds up, too. Plus it is the safest option without question, and the most passenger friendly.
Quote: With those conditions this screams turboprop. It isn't working for whatever reason to fly King Airs. If a legacy Citation operates at $1500/hour, then it costs less than a King Air at $1250/hour.
Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 18:35 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8456 Post Likes: +8429 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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Any jet will make your KA costs seem cheap.
Your docs and pilots all have KA familiarity and they are robust machines. Upgrade what you have, buy newer ones or move to the 200 series.
No one is going to be happy with any other choice.
MU2's are great machines but you'll never get them past the OWT's, etc. Waste of time to discuss.
I love the P180 and they've been proven in medical missions in Europe. But you won't save money moving to them and your team is already familiar with KA's. Makes sense to stay there.
The PC12 is the logical choice and many doctor groups fly them. But your guys say no SE and despite the fact that they'rd docs and don't know what they're talking about in terms of aviation safety you'll swim uphill and beat your head against a wall. Upgrade KA's are a simpler choice.
I love the TBM but I wouldn't argue that they are a better choice for the missions and conditions described. They aren't. Plus they are single engine.
Commaders, C441's? Are you seriously kidding me? You aren't going to fly them for less than a KA. They aren't more robust or capable. They are certainly old. Stay KA.
Piston? No way. I can't believe anyone would seriously suggest them.
Stay with a KA version with upgraded engines and avionics. $1250/hr is cheap for what you get. Tell the docs to get over it or drive.
_________________ Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120 Never enough!
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 18:50 |
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Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4573 Post Likes: +3298
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
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I don’t see any reason to “upgrade” anything other than the mx side of the equation a bit.
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 21:53 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 12799 Post Likes: +5226 Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
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Username Protected wrote: I don’t see any reason to “upgrade” anything other than the mx side of the equation a bit. Yes, you need mechanic on payroll and $500k in spares. Blackhawk… meh. You don’t need faster airplanes you just need faster mechanics As much as I like the MU2, even setting aside the insurance issues, trying to assemble a standard fleet will be difficult. Would a 200 (or 300) allow you to have one airframe do the work of 2?
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 22:44 |
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Joined: 01/29/16 Posts: 1338 Post Likes: +1825 Company: RE/MAX at the Lake Location: Mooresville, NC
Aircraft: Cirrus SR22
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New airplane that can haul 3-5 passengers..... Perfect for short hops...... Chute, I can think of a contender.... Attachment: SF50.jpg
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 31 Jul 2021, 23:12 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1313 Post Likes: +1298 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: New airplane that can haul 3-5 passengers..... Perfect for short hops...... Chute, I can think of a contender.... Except for the part about wanting 2 engines. Night time, rugged, rural.... You want another engine to get you to an airport, not parachuting down into mountainous country in a snowstorm.
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Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs Posted: 01 Aug 2021, 00:35 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: You want another engine to get you to an airport, not parachuting down into mountainous country in a snowstorm. Not to mention it uses a lot of runway and have no TRs. My legacy V will use less runway. With ice on the runway, the SF50 is a non starter. It is also $3M and long lead time. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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