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28 Mar 2024, 15:42 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 11:51 
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What about replacing the oldest King Airs with ca. 2007 vintage with a full Garmin panel overhaul?

This.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 12:05 
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Joined: 12/19/09
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
Panels are all G600 glass & synthetic vision with 530W Nav/Com 1 and G650 Nav/Com2 with active traffic and XM weather plus radar. Not ultra-modern but not all analog either. We have kept the cockpits exactly the same in all 4 planes so the pilots have an easier time moving among the planes.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 12:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
A new 90 no longer exists but they'll sell you a 260 which is better by 170.

What am I missing?

$7M price tag.

Mike C.


Wow... that's off by something close to $2M!
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 12:40 
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Thomas,

I just looked at your airplanes, two 1985's and two 1990's that appear to be fairly low time, though I am sure the cycles are getting up there. Add to that the avionics upgrades and I don't think you'll fair much better with anything else. Sure, a new C90B or GT would be a little lower maintenance but good luck finding one, much less four.

What maintenance issues are you seeing? Is this a situation where the airplanes are down between phase inspections? Because if they are, that's probably a maintenance facility issue not an airplane issue.

We are seeing some parts availability issues, fuel bladders are the latest, but these are supply chain issues more than old airplane issues. A new airplane would help because there's less that needs to be replaced do to age, but again not enough to offset the much higher acquisition cost.

There's a lot of folks who have similar operations using the same vintage 90's, EagleMed comes to mind, and they have primarily C90A/B's and a BUNCH of them. If there was a better way, they'd be doing it.

I would upgrade to newer C90B's when the market allows you to do so, mainly to keep your current fleet from having such high hours or cycles that resale value is impacted, but other than that I think what you are doing is probably working much better overall than you think.

Feel free to call me and we can discuss the maintenance, that may be what's giving you grief. Using a different shop or getting Paul Sneden to work with your current shop may be the solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 12:56 
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Using a different shop or getting Paul Sneden to work with your current shop may be the solution.


Chip,

You have any thoughts on at what point taking maintenance in-house makes sense?

Four active planes in one base seems like it would be well past that point to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 13:03 
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Using a different shop or getting Paul Sneden to work with your current shop may be the solution.


Chip,

You have any thoughts on at what point taking maintenance in-house makes sense?

Four active planes in one base seems like it would be well past that point to me.


That's a tough one, I'd have to know a lot more about how many hours per year they are flying. If it's a lot, that could make a lot of sense, especially if they could move to their own AAIP and / or get rid of an airplane.

The ability to use your own maintenance schedule and avoid those lengthy inspections is huge for a high utilization operator. The benefit of having an airplane down over a weekend instead of a week can be a big deal.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 21:10 
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
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Mostly it is just time during phase inspections with planes down longer than expected because they are having some trouble sourcing parts. Not a lot of major problems between phase inspections. A lot of it just comes down to the cost of complying with the calendar time based maintenance intervals that the King Air series seems to have in spades compared to some other planes. And yes, since our legs are short and the planes stay for the day where they go, the cycles are relatively high and the annual flight time is relatively low.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 21:41 
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King Air 350

There is no substitute.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 22:16 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
A lot of it just comes down to the cost of complying with the calendar time based maintenance intervals that the King Air series seems to have in spades compared to some other planes.

Yes, they do.

Quote:
And yes, since our legs are short and the planes stay for the day where they go, the cycles are relatively high and the annual flight time is relatively low.

How many hours/year per plane?

Citation phase 1-4 is 300 hours or 2 years on the normal schedule. That's 6 hours a week for a year before you need a major inspection. Parts are generally easy to come by. Lots of shops service them efficiently. If you use them a lot, Textron has a HUMP (high utilization maintenance program) which makes inspections better for that use case, but I odn't have the particulars.

I have the impression a Merlin has long inspection cycles. Could check into that. Not the best OEI performer, though, which can be an issue in the mountains.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 23:00 
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Username Protected wrote:

I have the impression a Merlin has long inspection cycles. Could check into that. Not the best OEI performer, though, which can be an issue in the mountains.


Great plane, but tiny high pressure tires are not suited for Wyoming winters necessarily.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 23:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
Mostly it is just time during phase inspections with planes down longer than expected because they are having some trouble sourcing parts. Not a lot of major problems between phase inspections. A lot of it just comes down to the cost of complying with the calendar time based maintenance intervals that the King Air series seems to have in spades compared to some other planes. And yes, since our legs are short and the planes stay for the day where they go, the cycles are relatively high and the annual flight time is relatively low.


This sounds like the problem my A&P has- finding someone to work the back office. When I bring my plane in you should know what parts it needs and have them handy. He has several “apprentices” but none of them can do the job. He has to oversee everything, source parts, do billing, collect on billing etc.

Sounds like a good person working for $15/hr could solve some problems. Ie order these parts before plane 2 comes in for phase? Yes I don’t like waiting for an oil filter. ***my A&P has actually. Ever made me wait for an oil filter*** don’t tell him though I keep him on his toes.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 23:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
I have the impression a Merlin has long inspection cycles.
Great plane, but tiny high pressure tires are not suited for Wyoming winters necessarily.

Why not? You don't need brakes with beta props, and no tire pressure is low enough to float on snow, so cutting through the snow with small tires is actually good.

Mike C.
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 23:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
Sounds like a good person working for $15/hr could solve some problems.

You are naïve.

Sourcing parts takes skill, effort, and knowledge that a $15/hour burger flipper isn't going to have.

Indeed, sourcing parts is my primary way of reducing my operating costs, but there's no way I can hand that off to someone like you describe.

Shops want to buy parts the easiest way possible because it takes less of their time and they make the most money on markup. So they buy from the factory if they can.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2021, 23:52 
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Great plane, but tiny high pressure tires are not suited for Wyoming winters necessarily.
Don't get that one. The Merlin III series has the same size main tires as a King Air 200 (18x5.5), same gross weight.

The Merlin nose tires are smaller, (19.5x6.75-8) but there are two of them, just one on a 200 (22x6.75-10). I am tempted to make a definitive statement here, that the Merlin is clearly higher or lower pressure than the KA. Mike C. would see it, do the math in his head, proving me wrong in 1.72 seconds. Humiliating, but then I'd know...

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for replacement for C90A King Airs
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2021, 00:31 
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Joined: 12/19/09
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
A good friend of mine has a Merlin. Nice plane, faster than KA, slower than my MU-2, but longer range and bigger cabin by far. I don’t think sourcing parts would be easier for that plane than a King Air but I haven’t checked with him. I will do that shortly. Total flight time has been lower than average with all this COVID posturing but let’s say 450-550 most years (total for all 4 planes not including my MU-2).
Thanks again for everyone’s ideas.

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