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 Post subject: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 21:40 
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Joined: 04/09/16
Posts: 541
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Location: Utah
Aircraft: MU-2B
Wondering if anyone has experience owning a Lear31a.

What are the inspections like? From my initial reading they have a several phases A-D, and a 12 year, trying to get a good understanding of the costs for each phase and the details around large items to watch for.

I will likely buy one on program for the engines just to make that part low risk.

Any thoughts from anyone with experience would be great!


Mat


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 00:03 
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Joined: 05/05/09
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
They are sexy but I can’t make one pencil out over a single pilot citation. I think a 550 is your next airplane


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 05:48 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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Paging Tom Johnson


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 07:09 
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Joined: 01/17/21
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Aircraft: C550
Don’t think you can operate one single pilot .


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 10:13 
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Joined: 10/07/18
Posts: 2647
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
Aircraft: Baron 58, Lear 35
Little 31 experience. Too much 35 experience.
If it is the same as the 35, those phases come due on a one, two, four or eight year cycle, in addition to the possible hourly requirements. There are also a ton of IRNs that are due at various times unrelated to the phases. Then there is the required replacement items schedule. You didn’t mention the 12,000 hour inspection. (Maybe that doesn’t apply to the 31) It requires the removal of the wing and horizontal stab for NDI. It is due at the accumulation of 12,000 hours and then every 6,000 hour there after. It’s all do-able. In fact, that is largely what I do. Just be sure to bring your piggy bank.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 14:00 
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Joined: 04/09/16
Posts: 541
Post Likes: +157
Location: Utah
Aircraft: MU-2B
Username Protected wrote:
They are sexy but I can’t make one pencil out over a single pilot citation. I think a 550 is your next airplane


Not worried about two pilot requirement. Anyone with a heart beat and a multi can fill that seat.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 14:11 
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Joined: 01/17/21
Posts: 87
Post Likes: +42
Aircraft: C550
Username Protected wrote:
They are sexy but I can’t make one pencil out over a single pilot citation. I think a 550 is your next airplane


Not worried about two pilot requirement. Anyone with a heart beat and a multi can fill that seat.



If your insurance will allow it.

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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 21:31 
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Joined: 08/30/13
Posts: 409
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Company: Cruce Aircraft Services
Location: KPGD
Aircraft: Learjet 55, C-310
My pencil figured cost per mile for a Lear is lower than a citation. If you’re man enough to pull the power from 325kts indicated in climb, 450kts in cruise and 345 in the decent… you can econ the plan to 1400lbs first hour and 1100-1000lbs after that in a real plane with hot wings.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 21:45 
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Joined: 10/27/19
Posts: 6
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Aircraft: Pitts
I’m usually just a lurker here here but operate 2 late SN 31a’s for a 91 corporation. They are fantastic airplanes and the most bang for the buck you will find. We do as much of our maintenance in house as possible, typically will go out for 600hr (B1-6) or larger inspections. Parts support is still very good for the airplane mostly due to its commonality with the 35 of which there are many more. The major money items are going to be the 12yr, 6000 landing and windshields. Another poster quoted the 12000 hr inspection, but it’s doubtful you’ll see many 31s with that kind of time. Lots of 35’s in that boat though.
We run pretty lean and figure around $1800/hr. Doc which includes about 650/hr for MSP. The airplane is cheaper than a CJ to insure.
Operationally you can figure 450kts/.77-.79 most days. The airplane will make 430 under almost any condition, 450-470 if you are either a little lighter or it’s less than ISA+5. We occasionally do 490 to top weather but have to be relatively light. We are typically at 410-430 18-20 minutes after takeoff. If the airplane has a negative it’s that it only carries 4100lbs of fuel which means you need to be landing by the 3hr mark. That equates to 800-1000 miles most days. We are fairly conservative with the fuel reserves, the book says it will go 1400ish miles. LRC is between .72 and .74/420 tas, and you need to fly it if you want the range. Most of our trips are less than 2 hrs so we just leave it a max cruise all the time. It is, without a doubt, the best flying jet you will ever get your hands on and does most things very, very well.
Baggage space is surprisingly good, but all has to be loaded through the cabin. We have the Raisbeck locker which is good for a set of golf clubs and all of our covers, tools, etc. Our general rule of thumb is that if it will fit into the back of a suburban with the back seats down we can carry it. Small, soft bags help a lot. Our airplanes have the 17,700 TOW and it’s virtually impossible to overload them. One of the things we love the most about the airplane is that we can pretty much always do full fuel, full seats, and full bags with no weight issues unless we have some climb requirements (eagle/Denver in the summer time, etc)
Sorry for the long post, but I really can’t emphasize how good the airplane is, and how enjoyable they are to work.

Feel free to PM me if you’d like more specifics on maintenance costs, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2021, 22:07 
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Joined: 01/28/13
Posts: 6037
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
AND DJM is a Pitts driver to boot…. :clap: :clap: :pilot:

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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2021, 09:18 
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Joined: 04/09/16
Posts: 541
Post Likes: +157
Location: Utah
Aircraft: MU-2B
Username Protected wrote:
I’m usually just a lurker here here but operate 2 late SN 31a’s for a 91 corporation. They are fantastic airplanes and the most bang for the buck you will find. We do as much of our maintenance in house as possible, typically will go out for 600hr (B1-6) or larger inspections. Parts support is still very good for the airplane mostly due to its commonality with the 35 of which there are many more. The major money items are going to be the 12yr, 6000 landing and windshields. Another poster quoted the 12000 hr inspection, but it’s doubtful you’ll see many 31s with that kind of time. Lots of 35’s in that boat though.
We run pretty lean and figure around $1800/hr. Doc which includes about 650/hr for MSP. The airplane is cheaper than a CJ to insure.
Operationally you can figure 450kts/.77-.79 most days. The airplane will make 430 under almost any condition, 450-470 if you are either a little lighter or it’s less than ISA+5. We occasionally do 490 to top weather but have to be relatively light. We are typically at 410-430 18-20 minutes after takeoff. If the airplane has a negative it’s that it only carries 4100lbs of fuel which means you need to be landing by the 3hr mark. That equates to 800-1000 miles most days. We are fairly conservative with the fuel reserves, the book says it will go 1400ish miles. LRC is between .72 and .74/420 tas, and you need to fly it if you want the range. Most of our trips are less than 2 hrs so we just leave it a max cruise all the time. It is, without a doubt, the best flying jet you will ever get your hands on and does most things very, very well.
Baggage space is surprisingly good, but all has to be loaded through the cabin. We have the Raisbeck locker which is good for a set of golf clubs and all of our covers, tools, etc. Our general rule of thumb is that if it will fit into the back of a suburban with the back seats down we can carry it. Small, soft bags help a lot. Our airplanes have the 17,700 TOW and it’s virtually impossible to overload them. One of the things we love the most about the airplane is that we can pretty much always do full fuel, full seats, and full bags with no weight issues unless we have some climb requirements (eagle/Denver in the summer time, etc)
Sorry for the long post, but I really can’t emphasize how good the airplane is, and how enjoyable they are to work.

Feel free to PM me if you’d like more specifics on maintenance costs, etc.


Thanks for the reply, I may hit you with a PM in a few weeks after Oshkosh. You touched on several things my research has shown me about the airplane. It’s nice to hear it from an operator. I can’t imagine that flying a lear31 is any harder then my MU2. Two pilot will work fine for us, I’m looking to buy it with another equally qualified pilot and many of our missions will be joint. We will hire and train a pilot up for then missions where we are not joint. I have a friend with a 31AER and he loves it, so I’m looking forward to finding a list of what’s on the market now and reviewing options. I like to start the hunt 3-6 months before pulling the trigger.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2021, 11:24 
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Joined: 10/27/19
Posts: 6
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Aircraft: Pitts
Well the Pitts and I usually compromise about who is doing the driving….:)

If you are comfortable in the MU2 you will have no problem with the 31. They improved a lot of areas over the 35 (which is a very good airplane to start with,) and made it a much more user friendly airplane.


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 00:17 
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Joined: 03/23/08
Posts: 6908
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Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx.
Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
It has to be the easiest plane to fly in the universe, but maybe coming from Mu2 background caused that.

Climbs like the shuttle, AC is meh, door is clugey, systems are very basic and reliable.
There is a reason it was a Medivac express. Simple and reliable. ER fuel is handy.

The 12 year is the bigger inspection but there are a few ways to skin that.

It’s a blast to fly.

Dee owns the FBO Called CircleAir at KSEE and it’s his magic carpet of choice.
He can get much more detailed on the Mx schedule.
You can quickly buy a spare engine vs the cost of the Mx program.

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Tom Johnson-Az/Wy
AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance
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C: 602-628-2701


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 08:47 
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Joined: 03/23/08
Posts: 6908
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Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx.
Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
Also.. the least controversial airplane of BT for all time.

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Tom Johnson-Az/Wy
AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance
Tj.Johnson@AssuredPartners.com
C: 602-628-2701


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 Post subject: Re: Any Lear31a experts?
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 11:40 
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Joined: 03/28/17
Posts: 6627
Post Likes: +7925
Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
Would have liked to fly the 31A because getting the 1200 pound main tanks off the wing tips like the 20 series and 35 has got to make the 31 handle a lot better with less roll inertia, although that's not noticeable if the planes are flown smoothly.

Can you make a 31 lean over on a wing tip on the ramp by leaving the crossfeed valve open like the 20 and 30 series?? Ask me how I know. :eek:


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