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 Post subject: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 08:24 
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Joined: 12/24/18
Posts: 475
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Location: KHFD
Aircraft: F33A
BTer's,

Saw my first HondaJet up close at KCHO on Saturday morning.

Interesting plane. Even more interesting was the charter was for 4 adults and an infant (plus the two pilots) - couldn't envision them all fitting inside :D

From an aerodynamic standpoint, I am not impressed with the engine placement above the wings, but I'll leave that controversy for another post.

So, I took down the N-number. The FAA website lists seven previous owners (prior to the current one) since it came off the assembly line in 2018. The ownership chain suggests small corporate firms and charter operations.

In my experience, corporate jets don't turn over as many times in such a short interval unless there's something fundamentally wrong with the plane, such as the proposed mission profiles can't be accomplished.

Can anyone with some knowledge of the HondaJet weigh in about its real world utility?

Art


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 08:32 
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Joined: 11/20/14
Posts: 6451
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Aircraft: V35
The biggest problem for market acceptance is that it’s not a big, well supported brand with a strong track record of reliability and service that will be making bizjets forever… such as Cessna, Embraer, Gulfstream, etc. It’s a one-off from a big auto/motorcycle company that might lose interest.

“Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM”, they used to say in corporate IT. A competitor has to be very significantly better to overcome this.

The HondaJet first flew in 2003 and commercialization was announced 2006 with planned first delivery in 2010. First delivery was more like 2015 and with so much time competitors mostly caught up with the engineering gains of the Honda design.

The lesson from HondaJet, Sino Swearingen, and some others is… if you’re going to win with a radical engineering leap, you have to be quick to market. If it takes a decade or two to arrive, your advantage will disappear.


Last edited on 18 Jul 2021, 08:51, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 08:33 
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Joined: 11/30/18
Posts: 2223
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Location: NH
Aircraft: F33A, A320
I have a friend that flew one. He hated it. Had poor reliability, and the broker his employer bought the airplane from promised lots of things the airplane couldn't do. They sold it for a CJ2+.

He did say that the cabin was the quietest light jet cabin he has ever been in, and was quite roomy for 4 pax.


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 08:41 
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Joined: 01/18/11
Posts: 7681
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Location: Lakeland , Ga
Aircraft: H35, T-41B, Aircoupe
My brother owns a share in one. He loves it. The cabin is quite roomy for a four seater.
Bro also owns a share of a citation when more seats are required.


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 11:08 
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Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 1845
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Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Flew one a few years ago. Seemed awesome to me. Felt more modern than CJ-anything. Extremely quiet and very easy to fly. Cabin nicely sized for 4+1 in the back. Similar to Piaggio, engine on wing gets all vibration off cabin so it was exceptionally smooth.

When the newer ones with more range depreciate it will be a heckuva single pilot plane.


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 11:49 
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Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14128
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
I have 75 odd hours in an early one. It’s an amazing machine if you operate within its parameters. The owner wanted a fast jet to go relatively short distances like NorCal to Reno, Reno to Grand Junction and back to NorCal in one day. They upgraded from a C90 and the plane made it easier to do that in one day.

The complaints about the plane are that it has short legs. Max fuel in the standard plane is 2900 lbs, but we found that the last 200 lbs had to be put in very very slowly… most line guys would top it off to 2700, and then you’d have to argue with them to stand there for 20 mins dripping the last 200 lbs in if you needed it. The plane sips fuel but only after you get it up to 430… down low you’re burning 1100 lbs per hour so really it was 3 hours to empty if you’re conservative or if you get held low, and that makes for a 2 hour airplane before you better start thinking about coming down hill. On one two ship trip I beat the Honda by 30 mins to destination flying the PC12 because I didn’t need a fuel stop and they did. So, for a 2 hour airplane, why take up so much space in the back with a full sized lav? Unless you have a tiny bladder you’ll be stopping anyways so I don’t think we ever used the lav once. Other complaints I had was that some elements just feel cheaply made, such as the plastic landing gear handle feels like a kids toy. Ref speeds are higher than what I was used to in the citation, at gross as high as 115, so the end of the runway approaches fast. A few kts fast and you’ll eat up runway. I wouldn't want the one without speed brakes. No reversers, and tiny wheels with huge anti skid breaks so you come in fast and touch down then heavy breaking, so landing is sporty. The big winglets tend to push it sideways in a crosswind, so you kind of need to steer it with the ailerons like a car on landing in a crosswind.

Some positives are it’s the quietest plane I’ve ever been in. It’s so quiet, if you’re wearing a headset you won’t know the engine started without looking at the gauges. Power and acceleration is push you back in your seat thrilling. The rear cabin is high tech, comfy and feels spacious and passengers love it. There is a side facing jump seat but it’s not ideal, really a 4 pax airplane but those 4 ride in style. I personally feel like any jet should be able to take 8-10 souls somewhere far away, but that’s not this airplanes wheelhouse.

The fuel quantity shortcomings have been addressed by the Elite and the Elite+. The owner I flew for upgraded to the Elite and took a huge beating on depreciation, but now he’s pretty happy with the Elite for his short hop missions. He moved the plane to another state so I’m not flying it any more.

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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 18 Jul 2021, 18:25 
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Joined: 08/08/08
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Company: BT #617
Location: Asheboro NC (KHBI)
Aircraft: none :-(
They are already working on the next model.


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2021, 11:34 
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Joined: 09/11/12
Posts: 125
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Location: Chicago, IL (KGYY)
Aircraft: Piper M600
Worth mentioning that while the Elite models snuck in a bit more fuel, the Hondajet remains extremely difficult to get full.

The "fix" for that problem was just a light that tells the line person to "go slow" for the final gallons so they don't get sprayed, but it still takes just as much time (and ideally, having the aircraft parked slightly downhill) to get the airplane full.


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2021, 21:11 
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Joined: 05/23/08
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
As anyone flown the Elite or Elite S model ?

What real IFR range can you do with these?

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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2021, 21:40 
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I am actually working on getting that information (regarding an Elite S model) from an operator at the moment because I am considering an opportunity involving this jet. Seats full don't expect much but that's true for most jets in this category. If you really need to fill the seats most of the time then to paraphrase the movie Jaws, "you're gonna need a bigger plane."


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2021, 10:54 
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Joined: 08/12/08
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Company: Retired
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Aircraft: '76 A36 TAT TN 550
My CFII is a corporate pilot and flies a variety of equipment, including a Honda Jet.

He speaks highly of the Honda Jet for their missions and he raves about how quiet it is (due to their unique engine placement).

The passengers love it.

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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2021, 11:04 
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Joined: 12/29/14
Posts: 8476
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Location: Brunswick, Ga
Aircraft: PA32RT-300T
They just delivered their 200th Honda Jet. Seems the market is accepting them.


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 Post subject: Re: HondaJet market acceptance
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2022, 04:55 
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Joined: 02/15/21
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Volato orders 15 Honda Jets:

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/ ... craft.html

It's something I personally don't ascribe to, but I have to admit that there is always a segment of any market that wants the "latest and greatest", newest and flashiest, unique and innovative (but not Beech Starship unique), no matter what the price and actual specs.

An attractive paint job doesn't hurt, either.

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