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25 May 2022, 16:22 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 10:00 
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Joined: 01/12/14
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Location: KISP Long Island
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<<< Further, chute testing results in the destruction of an airframe whereas spin testing does not.>>>

The last few issues of COPA PILOT magazine have articles by Gary Black, one of the test pilots responsible for the flight testing and certification of the SR20/22, on the difficulties experienced in testing the chute.

No chute testing resulted in the destruction of the airframe. As Black stated “if he ( not Black) had bailed out ( one of the flights had a rear riser not release properly ) it might have ended the CAPS program, as N1 was our sole test vehicle.

The June issue has an article on the returning of a CAPS pull airplane to the sky, interesting reading for all those who think a CAPS pull necessarily results in total loss of the plane. I believe at least 17 of these planes were returned to the sky.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 10:56 
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Joined: 08/01/11
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Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
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https://www.aviationconsumer.com/indust ... or-safety/

The Cirri are just average. Should have the best safety record.

Conclusion-It’s the pilot. With all that glass and a chute, they get cocky.

It is an emotional decision, like spending 100k on a new panel you need to fly in hard IFR.

That money could have been sent to California to buy more masks.

Hey I see a common thread here. Masks and chutes are two modern religions. Neither one is backed up by hard safety data, but it never stops the zealots and microtyrants from touting there greatness while simultaneously denigrating anyone who does not drink the flavoraid. 2020 became the year of “you need a mask.” 2030 may be the year of “you need a chute!” A t will start slowly. First you will need a chute to fly in Bravo airspace, then Charlie and Delta. Then anywhere where you can not stay at least outside the of gliding range from any mammal. The basis of these rulings will include FAR 91.225, UN case law titled International National Human Undertaking Making Aviation Necrotize, and of course Nuremberg laws. Exciting times ahead. I wish I could have used green.

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Ryan Holt CFI

"Paranoia and PTSD are requirements not diseases"


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 12:03 
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 14821
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Haters are going to hate.

Calling those who disagree with you "haters" is just name calling and not appropriate reasoned discussion.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 12:07 
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Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 2066
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Company: Retired
Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
Username Protected wrote:
A lot of people buy Cirrus planes because they are cool and the thing to buy. They think it’s the safest option.
Or their spouses do. A chute is hugely comforting to nervous non-pilots. That sells a lot of Cirri.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 12:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
For good reason, they may be more concerned about someone pulling the chute and ripping apart a perfectly good plane than some circumstance where the chute is actually useful / required.

Exactly.

The chute is dangerous. Deployment at certain times will actually lead to the death of the occupants, not saving them. It can only be deployed under circumstances which are basically not dangerous.

It is like a fire extinguisher which can't be used within sight of an open flame.

Exceptionally little of an average SF50 flight is within the chute deployment envelope, perhaps 0%. You are either too low to the ground for the chute to work, or too fast for it to work.

If all those systems required to deploy the chute are working, like airspeed indication, autopilot, electrical power, chute controller/timer, are you really in need of the chute?

Very few people will be saved by the SF50 chute, perhaps zero. Some people may die because of it due to deployments in situations where the chute creates a hazard. The overall safety impact is probably negative, more people would be alive if the chute didn't exist.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 12:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
A chute is hugely comforting to nervous non-pilots. That sells a lot of Cirri.

A chute is hugely comforting to pilots. That gets a lot of pilots into trouble.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 12:31 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Username Protected wrote:
A chute is hugely comforting to nervous non-pilots. That sells a lot of Cirri.

A chute is hugely comforting to pilots. That gets a lot of pilots into trouble.

Mike C.

If you agree with the above statement then it’s true that the Cirrus is an incredibly safe airplane as it saves a bunch of not really good pilots from ending up tango uniform.
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 12:32 
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Joined: 06/17/14
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Username Protected wrote:
A chute is hugely comforting to nervous non-pilots. That sells a lot of Cirri.

A chute is hugely comforting to pilots. That gets a lot of pilots into trouble.

Mike C.

...and passengers! Several non-pilots talk about the safety of the chute when they speak with me about flying. A non-pilot friend bought a Cirrus for his company and has a buddy flying it. He has learned to fly it and operate the auto pilot as well as read the charts. My fingers are crossed that he can get a medical (he has ADHD but isn't medicated) and start flying it.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 15:37 
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A lot of snot, ignorance and misinformation on this thread. It is far easier to sit around and toss spit balls, ain't it?

I don't own an SF50, but I have flown it. Honestly, I really like it and if I had the budget and the justification for spending the budget, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm not in that rank of "cost insensitive" though.

The plane is more or less in the same category as a Meridian. Except, it is a helluva lot more comfortable, for me anyway. I find the SF50 more comfortable than the crew seats on the Citation M2 too.

Does it make any sense? No.

Does GA make any sense? No. Not 98% of the time anyway. Yet, here we are.

Does a cabin-class piston twin make any sense? Hell no.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 17:04 
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Joined: 01/29/16
Posts: 1239
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Company: RE/MAX at the Lake
Location: Mooresville, NC
Aircraft: Cirrus SR22
Username Protected wrote:

I don't own an SF50, but I have flown it. Honestly, I really like it and if I had the budget and the justification for spending the budget, I'd do it in a heartbeat.




Five pages in and we finally found a guy who has flown one. :thumbup:

Okay, back to telling us how awful the plane is…… Go!


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 18:12 
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Joined: 11/19/15
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Company: Centurion LV and Eleusis
Location: Draper UT KPVU-KVNY
Aircraft: N45AF 501sp Eagle II
Larry

You are right. Most of GA does not make sense. It’s mostly emotional value.

For me Aviation is about transportation and not for fun or emotional satisfaction.

I pick my aircraft from a technical and logical standpoint. I don’t really care how it looks other than I don’t want it to scare passengers by being old and beat up.

For guys like me the VJ does not make sense. Performance per dollar the VJ isn’t a great travel machine. No way it would fit my mission, but neither would a Meridian.

I think that’s what turns guys like Mike C off, for the money there are much better performing aircraft out there.

Some people only care about how cool things look and seems. Others only
Care about functionality. The classic Form over Function argument.


If someone says the plane I just bought is stupid it does not bother me. I did not buy a 501e2 to impress others. I bought it because it’s the best plane for me.

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 18:45 
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
The Vision Jet definitely has its own niche. It's also a Koolaid airplane, and those that buy them are drinking a lot of it. I can’t imagine paying twice the price of my Mustang to buy one, regardless of how much newer it would be.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 18:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
it seems like a nice airplane that fits a niche nicely.

That niche is SR22 owners who fancy a jet that goes slow, low, and short, and mistakenly believe one engine is simpler.

Mike C.

Like Ethan said. :D
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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 20:17 
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Joined: 01/22/19
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Location: KFXE
Username Protected wrote:
The Vision Jet definitely has its own niche. It's also a Koolaid airplane, and those that buy them are drinking a lot of it. I can’t imagine paying twice the price of my Mustang to buy one, regardless of how much newer it would be.


Yeah, those people who can pay over 2 million for a brand new jet, they sure are dumb. I can't believe they've been suckered out of all that money. Must be hard being so dumb, that all you can do is throw away a small part of your millions on it. They're not even smart enough to get their money back from those thieves at Cirrus. They must all be fresh lottery winners, since smart people who've worked hard for their money, and made smart choices to be able to afford a new jet, wouldn't throw away money on a useless toy.

:popcorn:

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 20:31 
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Joined: 01/01/10
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
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Easy there Juber. Getting a bit heavy. It’s not about being dumb, smart, suckered, or frivolous. And no one said it’s a useless toy. It’s just not a strong value proposition unless you like Koolaid.

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