banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 13:56 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 345 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 ... 23  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 13:35 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 7975
Post Likes: +6844
Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
Username Protected wrote:
Surely you’re joking? Three days to do three meetings sleeping in hotels, hanging out in airports, Dealing with the disaster of reschedules and canceled flights, late meetings because some connection got screwed up, hanging out in lounges versus the same three meetings in one day is not a productivity benefit? I can’t count the number of times I’ve done two or more big ticket items on the same day that could not have been done on the airlines. With money you can replace almost anything, and accomplish almost anything, but you can’t create more time no matter how much money you have. Sure the lifestyle is not to be under appreciated. Time spent with your kids or grandkids instead of sitting in an airport, intimate time with your significant other instead of sleeping in a hotel far away, how do you put a price on that. However, if you do want to beat the reliability of the airlines, pretty much going to have to have a turbine, or at least a deiced aircraft that can fly in the 20s. Gets more difficult if you’re trying to do those missions in the meat of the weather.


Thanks for making my point. Flying personal aircraft for business can be a great lifestyle benefit, which is why I am doing it. Productivity benefit - that's a different story. I can be as productive, sometimes more productive on the road because I have no distractions I get at home or at the office. Airline lounges have everything you need to work comfortably. Airliners have wifi and I can work on a 6 hour cross-county flight, which I couldn't do flying my plane. Hotels have room service and I don't have to worry about shopping or cleaning, I just get to the room, crack open my laptop and get to work.

Now, you can argue that you are happier at home and you are more productive when you are happier - which may be true, but this is still a lifestyle benefit first.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 13:44 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/16/12
Posts: 27
Post Likes: +9
Location: KHWD
Aircraft: V35; Citabria; Pa28
That’s a lot more than the regional airline pilots that are flying you around make. FO’s start around $55k-60 and the captains are around $80


Username Protected wrote:


This is contrary to the ads I see running on various job boards. Going rate for full-time Part 91 turboprop pilots seems to run around $70-80K. If people had trouble funding good pilots at that rate, the pay would be higher.


I can’t imagine putting my employees, much less my family in the plane with someone who would do that job for that comp. As a right seater for me and someone to get the plane ready to go and put it away after we land maybe, but as someone who can be given the instruction “Go to A pick up X and take him to B and then come back here,” no way. That money doesn’t buy the experience I’d want.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 13:58 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 12/07/17
Posts: 7026
Post Likes: +5805
Company: Malco Power Design
Location: KLVJ
Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:

Well, in this thread, folks are saying $70-80K is the right amount.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=196211

Not to mention, this is pretty similar to what a captain at Cape Air or various 135 outfits or even regionals make, with way more intense work schedule. I guess your standards are higher than what paying passengers can expect. ;)


Cape Air and the similar carriers have an entire infrastructure of procedures, dispatchers, and second crew around them to help them make good decisions. In the situation described you need someone who can do that all on their own.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 14:18 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/30/09
Posts: 866
Post Likes: +636
That’s a lot more than the regional airline pilots that are flying you around make. FO’s start around $55k-60 and the captains are around $80

————

And regional captains work 12-15 days per month.

The suggestion is that, for $80k you can get a 24x7x365 on call pilot who can’t be more than an hour from the airport.

80000 / 24x7x365 = $ 1.30 per hour. I don’t care if you call it “part time”, if you are on call, it’s not.

I highly doubt that anyone on here would sign up for that job and do it for more than a few months. Even though it is being touted as a “good gig”.

You couldn’t run fast enough to give me this job - and I’m a 135 jet captain that flies a lot !

Brad


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 17:06 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 7975
Post Likes: +6844
Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
Username Protected wrote:
This thread has reached absurdity in regard to explaining how business aircraft work. Some people just have to prove what they don’t know.

Now, back to the SF50…


You must have missed the part where I mentioned that I've been traveling for business 4-5 days a week, EVERY week, for 20 years straight - major portion of it by my personal airplane. I'd say I am pretty well qualified, or perhaps even uniquely qualified, to talk about business air travel. ;)


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 17:17 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 7975
Post Likes: +6844
Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
Username Protected wrote:
And regional captains work 12-15 days per month.

The suggestion is that, for $80k you can get a 24x7x365 on call pilot who can’t be more than an hour from the airport.

80000 / 24x7x365 = $ 1.30 per hour. I don’t care if you call it “part time”, if you are on call, it’s not.

I highly doubt that anyone on here would sign up for that job and do it for more than a few months. Even though it is being touted as a “good gig”.

You couldn’t run fast enough to give me this job - and I’m a 135 jet captain that flies a lot !

Brad


It helps to read the thread before replying, then you'd know we are not talking about a job where you can't be more than one hour away from the airport. This conversation is about business aircraft, and in that context 24x7 just means there is no set on-off schedule, it doesn't mean you have to be ready to go at the drop of a hat.

In business, there are very few scenarios where you don't know today that you will be traveling tomorrow. So here is a job where you can relax on the beach, play with kids, hunt, fish, boat, tinker in your garage and do whatever you like every day, all while knowing that once or twice a week a call may come to say we are going somewhere tomorrow. Sounds like a dream job to me.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 21:29 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/30/09
Posts: 866
Post Likes: +636
Username Protected wrote:
Keeping a current mu2 pilot available 24/7/365 in Evansville IN would probably cost $150-$200k for long term stability. The job is not attractive in location, experience building, job security, working conditions or lifestyle. Your only lever is pay and that pay would need to be enough to never seek another opportunity.


I am not sure about that. People have very different priorities and what sounds unattractive to you may be very attractive to someone else. Could be a great gig for someone who likes free time to pursue their personal interests and does not mind staying fairly local most of the time.

Engineers can pretty much get a job anywhere these days, and if Mike found some qualified engineers to work for his company, there must be enough attractions in Evansville IN for people to want to live there. Not to mention, a pilot could live in Nashville or Louisville or St. Louis and easily hold this job.


Yuri:

I can read fine and, in fact, was responding to your post on page 15 - see above.

See your own post to being available 24/7/365. While I agree you didn’t say some notice times, but 24/7/365 doesn’t mean all day every day but get to the airport when you can.

In most, if not all, of the situations like this I am aware of, 2 hour notice is the norm.

Brad

Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 23:30 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 7975
Post Likes: +6844
Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
Username Protected wrote:
One hour callout is pretty extreme. This sounds like "high net worth" individual who uses the plane the fetch the organic dog food for wife's chihuahua. For someone who uses the plane for business travel, 8 hours callout would be just fine, except perhaps for someone who is engaged in emergency repair-type operations.

If I could trade my 9 to 5 office job for a job where I only have to fly somewhere once or twice a week, with the caveat that I have to be at the airport at 6 am next morning if I get a call by 10 pm, I'd be all over that job.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 00:11 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 3343
Post Likes: +1948
Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
True high net worth can afford a flight department. It’s what you need if you require/desire 24x7 air travel on a moment’s notice. Always a crew and a bird from the fleet for the boss, up to date on pt-121 level training and duty hours with time off and benefits. And a dispatcher to do the flight plan, international clearances and order the catering and green M&M’s for every stop.

Same as the POTUS has. The ex-POTUS for that matter. And other sovereigns, celebrities and Titans of Industry.

The rest of us just wannabes.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 03:34 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 5547
Post Likes: +2503
Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
In today market, $70-80k/year will get you a 500 hour wonder with a fresh Commercial Certificate to fly Yuri's Bonanza around and be on call 24/7. That will last about 12-18 months and they will be gone to Cape Air, Regionals, etc. and you will start the process all over again.
Unless you find the Commercial Pilot that grew up in the local city and has family there, you are going to have double that. Even then, they will most likely be gone in five years or less.
Today, you can go to a Regional, and in five years be at a Major making a heck of a lot more money for much less work.

We're just starting August and I've had 137 days off this year and flown about 215 hours of which approximately 1/3 was sleeping in a bunk. I don't care how much I complain about the Chinese prison (aka hotel) I'm heading to shortly, there is no way I'd want to be someones b^&*$h 24/7 for half of what I'm making now.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 07:34 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/30/09
Posts: 866
Post Likes: +636
Username Protected wrote:
One hour callout is pretty extreme. This sounds like "high net worth" individual who uses the plane the fetch the organic dog food for wife's chihuahua. For someone who uses the plane for business travel, 8 hours callout would be just fine, except perhaps for someone who is engaged in emergency repair-type operations.

If I could trade my 9 to 5 office job for a job where I only have to fly somewhere once or twice a week, with the caveat that I have to be at the airport at 6 am next morning if I get a call by 10 pm, I'd be all over that job.


If you really want a job like that, for that pay, give me a call. I have a PIC jet type rating with your name on it, and I’d be glad to have you 24/7/365 for 80K.

I can guarantee that you will know by 3 pm if you fly the next day. If I don’t need you, you are off and won’t be bothered. I also guarantee that within 6 months you will be whining about the schedule and within 2 years you will leave for a regional because you’ve built enough time to not be 24/7/365.

Rinse and repeat. You even get a number of vacation days that you can use, so it’s not really 24/7/365.

If you’d do that for 80k, put your money where your mouth is.

Let’s go.

Brad

Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 10:05 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/22/08
Posts: 2913
Post Likes: +921
Company: USAF Propulsion Laboratory
Location: Dayton, OH
Aircraft: PA24, AEST 680, 421
Username Protected wrote:
That’s a lot more than the regional airline pilots that are flying you around make. FO’s start around $55k-60 and the captains are around $80

————

And regional captains work 12-15 days per month.

The suggestion is that, for $80k you can get a 24x7x365 on call pilot who can’t be more than an hour from the airport.

80000 / 24x7x365 = $ 1.30 per hour. I don’t care if you call it “part time”, if you are on call, it’s not.

I highly doubt that anyone on here would sign up for that job and do it for more than a few months. Even though it is being touted as a “good gig”.

You couldn’t run fast enough to give me this job - and I’m a 135 jet captain that flies a lot !

Brad


My wife works for a hospital and many of the medical staff are on call. The hospital pays something like $2.50/hour for that privilege. Lots of folks put up with that. Granted that is not 365 days/year, but not uncommon for 1-2x/week.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 10:08 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 7975
Post Likes: +6844
Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
Username Protected wrote:
In today market, $70-80k/year will get you a 500 hour wonder with a fresh Commercial Certificate to fly Yuri's Bonanza around and be on call 24/7. That will last about 12-18 months and they will be gone to Cape Air, Regionals, etc. and you will start the process all over again.
Unless you find the Commercial Pilot that grew up in the local city and has family there, you are going to have double that. Even then, they will most likely be gone in five years or less.
Today, you can go to a Regional, and in five years be at a Major making a heck of a lot more money for much less work.

We're just starting August and I've had 137 days off this year and flown about 215 hours of which approximately 1/3 was sleeping in a bunk. I don't care how much I complain about the Chinese prison (aka hotel) I'm heading to shortly, there is no way I'd want to be someones b^&*$h 24/7 for half of what I'm making now.


Why would they go to Cape Air or regionals where they would have to work way more for the same amount of pay?

This isn't a job for a youngling who is trying to move up in aviation world; this is a job for a semi-retired guy who still wants to keep his head in aviation game and make some money on the side while not working too hard.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 10:16 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 7975
Post Likes: +6844
Location: New York, NY
Aircraft: Debonair C33A
Username Protected wrote:

If you really want a job like that, for that pay, give me a call. I have a PIC jet type rating with your name on it, and I’d be glad to have you 24/7/365 for 80K.

I can guarantee that you will know by 3 pm if you fly the next day. If I don’t need you, you are off and won’t be bothered. I also guarantee that within 6 months you will be whining about the schedule and within 2 years you will leave for a regional because you’ve built enough time to not be 24/7/365.

Rinse and repeat. You even get a number of vacation days that you can use, so it’s not really 24/7/365.

If you’d do that for 80k, put your money where your mouth is.

Let’s go.

Brad


Call me back in 5 years please. Right now I make way, way more in my IT job, and I need the money. But I am hoping to be able to retire from it in 5 years or so when I hit 60, and when I do, I'd love a job like that for a semi-retirement gig.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 02 Aug 2021, 10:44 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 10/07/10
Posts: 523
Post Likes: +500
Aircraft: Pitts S-2B
Username Protected wrote:
We got back to Salt Lake in time for dinner and a movie. She and the baby didn’t even make it home that day, Got in sometime early morning the next day. I didn’t say a word. Smarter than that.


I just caught up on about 8 pages of this thread and this has to be the single greatest piece of wisdom contained herein.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 345 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 ... 23  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.AAI.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.