Old engine turbine overhaul mandatory thread here where we go deep.

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=81302&p=1682143&hilit=pt6+overhaul+mandatory#p1682143

So, Anthony, after this 21-page thread got cooking along with the usual Cirrus retorts, did you learn anything new about the SF50 that is influencing your aircraft buying decisions?

Hello all,

Joel here. I am type-rated in the Vision Jet and have flown the aircraft for the past year and a half with approx. 325 hours in the aircraft. Hopefully I can provide some clarity on some of the questions and common misconceptions.

1) Regarding Anthony's question on Payload & Range:

The full-fuel range of the aircraft at Max-Continuous-Trust (yielding around 310 knots TAS) is 1,000 nm. This can be increased by up to 1275 nm with the Economy Cruise power setting (233 TAS). A common statement you will hear is "800 Ibs = 800 miles." This would be an accurate answer for your 4 passengers assuming no headwind. With 4 passengers, you can carry approx. 235 gallons of fuel (1600 Ibs) or 2 hours 36 minutes of flight time with IFR reserves. (800 nm). Happy to expand on this if you'd like.


2) Regarding Mike C's comment about CAPS:

The 30 second timer does not have to expire for the deployment to happen. It's simply a window. 135 IAS / 145 TAS is the maximum deployment speed. If the aircraft is already at/OR BELOW that speed, the deployment happens immediately. The logic is designed to measure speed trends every few seconds. For example, in the event of a mid-air collision where a component of the airframe is damaged, the logic first measures present speed, if less than/or equal to 135 IAS or 145 TAS, the deployment happens immediately regardless of a timer. If greater than 135 IAS or 145 TAS, the auto pilot makes an attempt to slow the aircraft by first leveling the wings then pitching up. However, it is measuring trends every few seconds. If the aircraft is trending in the wrong direction, going faster rather than slower, it does not wait for 30 seconds to expire, but deploys immediately. The system is designed to give you the best possible outcome. Again, to re-emphasize, assuming you are "low-and-slow" the deployment happens immediately. If you pull the handle at 300 knots, yes, it could take up to 30 seconds to pitch up and slow the aircraft down.

3) Regarding Mike C's comment about G2+ T/O Thrust.

To clarify, the Take Off enhancement to the G2+ is a combination of hardware and FADEC upgrades to unlock more capacity of the Williams FJ33. It's an upgrade of up to 20% ADDITIONAL thrust catered towards the high density altitude airports. It has nothing to do with the 5 minutes of already available T/O Thrust. It is truly MORE thrust generated on the ground for reduced ground roll and improved climb gradient on the initial climb.

4) Regarding Mike C's comment about production rates vs. demand :


He made a comment, "zero equals zero."
The 2020 end-of-year GAMA numbers will speak for themselves. This data is publicly available, if you'd like to review.

Cirrus has in fact increased production rates, but not at the expense of quality.

At then end of the day, I am a GA advocate and enjoy flying a variety of different aircraft and models. All of which have their different advantages. Not every aircraft appeals to everybody, but there is certainly an aircraft out there for whatever defines your ideal mission.

22 pages in and the OP finally gets what he asked for?

Hey Anthony,

Let me know if you would like to connect outside this thread. I can tell you about my experience flying the Jet so far, and give you some real-world performance models.

The system is highly complex, "chute by wire", versus the SR series.


What happens if the AP is off line, unpowered, etc?


The electronics are making the decisions, what could go wrong with that?

What happens if the electronics are the cause of the emergency in the first place?


The thrust rating of the engine wasn't changed in the TCDS. This means takeoffs in some conditions are not changed at all.


Only in some conditions, not all.

It sounds like Williams eroded the design margins they originally had in the engine (thus this will result in less life), OR the FADEC was badly programmed from the start, so it really isn't an enhancement as much as a bug fix.


Deliveries are not sales. Cirrus is not actually selling as fast as they can build, the backlog is shrinking.


Not really.

2017: 3
2018: 22
2019: 81
2020: 73
2021Q1: 7 (28 per year?)

They originally claimed 125 units per year would be full rate. Falling quite short of that and there was a decline in the most recent full year.

And yes, GAMA is a good source of data. Please use it before making claims.

Mike C.

I’m told Peter Muller was on the design team for the VJ.

Tough crowd.

I actually like the Vision Jet (IMO it does address a market need albeit one that doesn't make sense technically) but I'm definitely not a fan of PM.

Wow, someone finally posted real info. Awesome!

He needs to be so they can get the cruise speed down to chute deployment speed.

Mike C.

Considering all the fun of covid, the 2020 numbers are impressive. And the chip shortage affects us all.

Nothing like 52-week lead times for silicon...

As I mentioned before, in case of airframe failure, the plane is not going to be in a smooth dive, it will be tumbling and it’s speed will be quite low. Not to mention, its flight path will not be aligned with pitot direction, so computer will likely read zero speed and will deploy the chute without delay.

Hey Anthony,

Let me know if you would like to connect outside this thread. I can tell you about my experience flying the Jet so far, and give you some real-world performance models.