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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 13:39 
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I know two pro pilots who are/were on call 24/7. One just retired - he was clearing over $200k his last year for about 80 hrs/year of flying, and couldn't wait to quit. He was miserable the last few years. He was on a very short leash.

The other is still working. He had to bail out of a short-notice trip with me because he couldn't reach his employer, and he wasn't allowed to be more than 1 hour from the airport without permission.

There aren't a lot of these guys around, and they tend not to last. They're certainly not $75k/year.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 14:03 
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It all depends on where you are and your level of experience with airline travel. I live in NYC where there is a direct flight to just about anywhere, and I've traveled by airlines on a weekly basis for 20 years. When I did, I had this down to a science - never waited a minute to board the airliner, except for when there are delays. And when there are delays, I am sitting at the lounge working, not wasting time. Not to mention, I am also working during the flight, which I can't do while flying the plane.

Don't get me wrong, business travel by private plane is great, and I've done it successfully for many years. I am just being honest about the reasons why we do it ;)

This is just incorrect.... It depends on the mission and where your business takes you. Try flying to Pecos, Texas - the heart of the Delaware Basin on a regular basis. And forget New York - try to do it from Houston or Dallas.... and make it work.

For some folks like yourself, flying doesn't make sense. I get it. For other folks like myself and others on this thread, airlines are a productivity killer.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 14:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
I know two pro pilots who are/were on call 24/7. One just retired - he was clearing over $200k his last year for about 80 hrs/year of flying, and couldn't wait to quit. He was miserable the last few years. He was on a very short leash.

The other is still working. He had to bail out of a short-notice trip with me because he couldn't reach his employer, and he wasn't allowed to be more than 1 hour from the airport without permission.

There aren't a lot of these guys around, and they tend not to last. They're certainly not $75k/year.

I agree.

Plus at 80 hours/year I don't see how this could be a safety enhancement even if we call the guy a "Pro"....


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 14:28 
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This is just incorrect.... It depends on the mission and where your business takes you. Try flying to Pecos, Texas - the heart of the Delaware Basin on a regular basis. And forget New York - try to do it from Houston or Dallas.... and make it work.

For some folks like yourself, flying doesn't make sense. I get it. For other folks like myself and others on this thread, airlines are a productivity killer.


Exactly. Coincidentally my commute is to Pecos TX. I live in Houston and have similarly available flights to NY but you aren’t going to Pecos on short notice or at anything like a flexible time.

Take into account the ground transport difference (the closest commercial airport is KMAF a 90 minute car ride away) and I save about 24 hours at home every week by flying the Baron over the best Southwest can do.

I also haven’t been through TSA in a little over 2 years and boy is that suhaweeet.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 15:51 
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So.... The OP was asking if anyone is actually flying one, not the debate of business use for an airplane.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 16:20 
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So.... The OP was asking if anyone is actually flying one, not the debate of business use for an airplane.

Yup. This is BeechTalk, aka a bunch of old know-it-alls hanging around a water cooler.

OP got an answer and left, and the rest of us are still here.

If you ask about the best place to fly into near Dallas for a meeting, page 16 of the thread will still be joyfully debating West Texas vs KC barbeque, and most of us will be learning something new. It's one of the things that's great about BT.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 17:18 
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Your original question was why would you need to schedule anything in advance if you have a pro pilot on the payroll.

I think you just answered your own question.

No pro pilot, even if they only work 20 hours a week, is going to be unconditionally available 24/7 without advance notice. People have lives.

Edit: Just saw Mike's comment above. I guess there are some, but they are miserable.


I answered my own question in affirmative - it is easy to find someone who will be available 24/7 if you set the right conditions. I had an interesting experience with something similar. At one point I was asked to run an IT support organization for a business with 24/7 operations, but was only given staff to cover one shift. The management expected people to work their 9 to 5 at the office, and then be available at all hours to jump in when something broke.

I knew this was not going to be sustainable, and sure enough I had a mutiny on my hands within a few weeks. So I told my folks: "Don't come to work. I don't want to see you in the office ever again. Go to the beach, play with kids, do whatever you want during the day. BUT, carry a laptop and wireless hotspot whenever you go. I want you on line working the issue within 15 min when you get the call, day or night. Guess what, everyone was completely delighted and my team had a great success running this way for years.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 17:32 
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I knew this was not going to be sustainable, and sure enough I had a mutiny on my hands within a few weeks. So I told my folks: "Don't come to work. I don't want to see you in the office ever again. Go to the beach, play with kids, do whatever you want during the day. BUT, carry a laptop and wireless hotspot whenever you go. I want you on line working the issue within 15 min when you get the call, day or night. Guess what, everyone was completely delighted and my team had a great success running this way for years.

That might work for IT support but I haven't heard of any hotspot operated jets yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 17:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
I know two pro pilots who are/were on call 24/7. One just retired - he was clearing over $200k his last year for about 80 hrs/year of flying, and couldn't wait to quit. He was miserable the last few years. He was on a very short leash.

The other is still working. He had to bail out of a short-notice trip with me because he couldn't reach his employer, and he wasn't allowed to be more than 1 hour from the airport without permission.

There aren't a lot of these guys around, and they tend not to last. They're certainly not $75k/year.


One hour callout is pretty extreme. This sounds like "high net worth" individual who uses the plane the fetch the organic dog food for wife's chihuahua. For someone who uses the plane for business travel, 8 hours callout would be just fine, except perhaps for someone who is engaged in emergency repair-type operations.

If I could trade my 9 to 5 office job for a job where I only have to fly somewhere once or twice a week, with the caveat that I have to be at the airport at 6 am next morning if I get a call by 10 pm, I'd be all over that job.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 17:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
That might work for IT support but I haven't heard of any hotspot operated jets yet.


The point, of course, is that people are willing to be on call 24/7 if you provide the appropriate reward. Whether it's to fix computers or fly jets or do surgery makes no difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 17:47 
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If I could trade my 9 to 5 office job for a job where I only have to fly somewhere once or twice a week, with the caveat that I have to be at the airport at 6 am next morning if I get a call by 10 pm, I'd be all over that job.

Yuri, let's agree that you don't know what you don't know.

I am an IT professional who is on 30 minute notice 24/7 for my client. I loose no sleep over it, do not plan vacations around it, nothing. And my clients are very happy.

I am also a professional in another field where I'm on 6h notice but if the call comes I've got to be in a very specific place. The amount of planning to have a life around it is just mind boggling.

BTW - even if you don't mind - ask your wife.


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 17:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
I am an IT professional who is on 30 minute notice 24/7 for my client.

Serious question - How do you handle 2 hour flights in the Bonanza?

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 18:01 
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I am an IT professional who is on 30 minute notice 24/7 for my client.

Serious question - How do you handle 2 hour flights in the Bonanza?

When I know I'll be out of cell range for more than 30 minutes I either pre-clear that and all parties are aware of the risk or I get a replacement to fill in.

I had this gig for 5 years now and only once had a "situation" where I was outside of data coverage (although with land line available to communicate) and my backup failed to show up. It took some smoothing things over, since then I'm much more careful in choosing my backups.

Last edited on 27 Jul 2021, 18:03, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 18:02 
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You missed my point entirely. What I am saying is that we own and fly these planes for all these intangible benefits the flying has to offer, not to so save money.

Perhaps for you, but not for others. Different businesses of different sizes in different places have different structures. Some have large margins, some have small. Some are large volume, some are not. Regardless, business aviation has different benefits for different companies. One can't judge the efficiency of a flight department from the outside looking in, whether it's a one-person/one-plane department or a multiple aircraft department. You don't know what you don't know.

If you're doing business regionally or nationwide with multiple locations, you can leverage the effectiveness of management with an airplane. The coverage they gain with their aircraft improves their business. There's no way they can do as well using the airlines. It's not for all, but it sure is for many. You can argue that it doesn't save money compared to the airlines, but if it boosts the bottom line by maximizing the reach of management and key employees, increasing profitability can become even better than saving money. Whether you call it saving or spending, it doesn't matter as long as it improves the bottom line. Most are able to conduct a number of additional business activities simply because of their airplane. Without it, many things would be removed from their scope. The additional reach can be beneficial is numerous ways.

So, the intangible benefits of flying business aircraft aren't the driving force behind them. I can understand how it might look that way to others, but again, you don't know what you don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 22:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
It never made financial sense for me because I refrained from taking employees on the plane for liability reasons.

Employees are the lowest liability passengers ever, at least in my state.

They are covered by worker's comp if there is an accident while on business. That prescribes certain payouts to them, and limits the liability to the business otherwise.

When I carry clients or non family passengers, I have far more liability exposure since there is no prescribed compensation and liability.

We make sure our worker's comp insurance covers travel in company owned/leased aircraft. Not all do, so that is something to check.

Mike C.

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