banner
banner

29 Mar 2024, 10:22 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 345 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 23  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 08:13 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 58
Post Likes: +44
Aircraft: CC EX-3
So, I guess the answer to the original question is-

No, no one on here is flying a Vision Jet.





7 pages


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 09:19 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
This is all very good in principle, and I kind of agree that you can't have too much training in principle, but we have to acknowledge that ultimately all this is killing aviation.

Pilot training is not killing aviation.

Quite literally, it is doing the opposite. It instills confidence and lower the overall cost by reducing accidents.

Asking a pilot of a high performance airplane to train once a year doesn't sound like an excessive burden. Insurance basically requires this already for most in this class. Let's up the standards and make it a legal requirement to improve the bottom performers.

Quote:
I'm hoping automation and technology can allow us to lower the bar for entry and sustain in the future. That's our only chance.

Your hoped for future is one without pilots.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 10:14 
Offline




User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 30432
Post Likes: +10542
Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
Asking a pilot of a high performance airplane to train once a year doesn't sound like an excessive burden. Insurance basically requires this already for most in this class. Let's up the standards and make it a legal requirement to improve the bottom performers.

It would be interesting to see some valid stats on the correlation between pilots who get annual training vs those who get by with the minimums, excluding those who fly the types of airplanes that require it by the FAA or insurers. It does seem likely that annual training would help but I doubt that it would help all that much.

As to the burden, for the rather large group of pilots who fly 25-40 hours per year, a couple hours of training would likely add 10% to their annual flying budget and that's enough that it would be burdensome. But for those of us who fly more than 100 hours per year, the extra cost would be in the noise.

_________________
-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 15:57 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/17/13
Posts: 6322
Post Likes: +5522
Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Mike, take away your passion for flying and look at it rationally: would any time-challenged business owner in their right mind want to spend the same time that you've just spent on getting SPE in the V to be able to use it as a tool? No, it's simply not time-efficient. We're relying entirely in aviation on that passion to sustain that self-flagellation. Eventually, with ever-increasing demands in the name of safety, you'll even run out of passionate people willing to put up with it.

_________________
Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 18:20 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/31/11
Posts: 984
Post Likes: +633
Company: B777, 767, 757, 727, MD11, S80
Location: Colorado Springs
Aircraft: Thrush S2R, AC500B,
Username Protected wrote:
And IT’S BUTT UGLY!!!


That depends on the BUTT.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 18:24 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/31/11
Posts: 984
Post Likes: +633
Company: B777, 767, 757, 727, MD11, S80
Location: Colorado Springs
Aircraft: Thrush S2R, AC500B,
Username Protected wrote:
So, I guess the answer to the original question is-

No, no one on here is flying a Vision Jet.

Nor the second question of how many people it can carry?



7 pages


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 18:30 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/31/11
Posts: 984
Post Likes: +633
Company: B777, 767, 757, 727, MD11, S80
Location: Colorado Springs
Aircraft: Thrush S2R, AC500B,
Username Protected wrote:
Who flys that for him? Same guy?


See bitching gets you nowhere.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 18:42 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/31/11
Posts: 984
Post Likes: +633
Company: B777, 767, 757, 727, MD11, S80
Location: Colorado Springs
Aircraft: Thrush S2R, AC500B,
From the previous answers I guess it is the pilot, the spouse and the dog. Ok, you can bring the cat.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 19:47 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/01/10
Posts: 3435
Post Likes: +2389
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Username Protected wrote:
...would any time-challenged business owner in their right mind want to spend the same time that you've just spent on getting SPE in the V to be able to use it as a tool? No, it's simply not time-efficient. We're relying entirely in aviation on that passion to sustain that self-flagellation. Eventually, with ever-increasing demands in the name of safety, you'll even run out of passionate people willing to put up with it.

I respectfully disagree. I'm a fairly busy business guy, and the time I took to get typed wasn't an issue. If you look at the annual CJP convention, you'll see hundreds of people that fly as part of their business lives. It doesn't appear that we're running out of passionate people willing to invest some time in aviation. In fact, it appears to be increasing.

_________________
Previous A36TN owner


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 19:53 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/06/19
Posts: 305
Post Likes: +230
Location: Maryville, Tennessee
Aircraft: Searching....
Username Protected wrote:
...would any time-challenged business owner in their right mind want to spend the same time that you've just spent on getting SPE in the V to be able to use it as a tool? No, it's simply not time-efficient. We're relying entirely in aviation on that passion to sustain that self-flagellation. Eventually, with ever-increasing demands in the name of safety, you'll even run out of passionate people willing to put up with it.

I respectfully disagree. I'm a fairly busy business guy, and the time I took to get typed wasn't an issue. If you look at the annual CJP convention, you'll see hundreds of people that fly as part of their business lives. It doesn't appear that we're running out of passionate people willing to invest some time in aviation. In fact, it appears to be increasing.


The CEO of the company I fly for was typed and flew the CJ4... He was stoked when we went to the Phenom 300 and Legacy 450/500. He is typed in the Phenome 300 and attends a 3-4 day simulator recurrent every year. Every time he flies the P300 he is like a kid in a candy store with a smile on his face and talking about what a great airplane it is for him. I believe it was 2019 he took one of the line pilots with him and some of his friends and went to OSH that year. This being a CEO of a $1B+ company. He is pretty passionate about aviation.
_________________
CL-65, CE-525S, EMB-505, EMB-550


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 07:44 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 06/05/11
Posts: 387
Post Likes: +172
Location: Atlanta, GA
Aircraft: SR22
Username Protected wrote:
As to the burden, for the rather large group of pilots who fly 25-40 hours per year, a couple hours of training would likely add 10% to their annual flying budget and that's enough that it would be burdensome. But for those of us who fly more than 100 hours per year, the extra cost would be in the noise.


The problem is the 25-40 hour/year pilots would benefit from it far more than the 100+ hour/year pilots.
_________________
Wayne

LinkedIn
instagram: waynecease


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 09:48 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 01/22/19
Posts: 870
Post Likes: +634
Location: KFXE
Username Protected wrote:
From the previous answers I guess it is the pilot, the spouse and the dog. Ok, you can bring the cat.


There are several flying from my airport. I know two of the operators and I'm familiar with their loading and trips. I've been to Duluth and saw the prototypes in 2010-2012, and I've followed the development and certification ever since.

Like any other plane, it has flexible loading within a 2400+ pound useful load. Being a single engine, the fuel burn is less. Max fuel is 2000 lbs, giving a 1275 NM range. So, you can put 1000 pounds in the cabin and fly 900 NM in 3 hours. Short trips of 2.25 hours can have up to 1350 pounds in the cabin. There are five seats for adults, and two child seats in the back row.

More than 250 SF50's have been delivered, and the current rate of production is 80 per year. I believe the order backlog is still over 400 aircraft, down from a high of 550.

_________________
A&P/IA/CFI/avionics tech KFXE


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 09:49 
Offline



User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 07/19/10
Posts: 2721
Post Likes: +1156
Company: Keller Williams Realty
Location: Madison, WI (91C)
Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35
Username Protected wrote:
The problem is the 25-40 hour/year pilots would benefit from it far more than the 100+ hour/year pilots.

For sure. The problem is that those 25-40 hour/year pilots fly only that much because they can't afford more. Adding 2h or more of mandated training to their budget will cross the line into 'not worth it' territory.

I look at it as a 'tax to enter the game'. As in I have pay $xxxx to be legal before my next trip to pancake breakfast. Suddenly those pancakes don't look too appealing. It's going to be harder and harder to justify spending that money to be able to fly that next mission. Then you stop even thinking about doing it.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 12:43 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/19/15
Posts: 1400
Post Likes: +1203
Company: Centurion LV and Eleusis
Location: Draper UT KPVU-KVNY
Aircraft: N45AF 501sp Eagle II
I really doubt there are any Jet owner pilots that can’t afford a few hours of training for recurrent training every year. It’s a rounding error in the over all cost to own a Jet.

I don’t think it’s a cost thing. If a owner pilot of any jet is not flying its most likely a time thing. Jets are time machines but sometimes they don’t produce enough of that valuable resource.


Mike

_________________
InstaGram @Mtpyle company @CenturionLV @eleusisdigitalcanvas race team @strappedracing


Top

 Post subject: Re: Anyone here flying a Vision jet?
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 13:06 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11105
Post Likes: +7090
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
Training is needed as Mike C notes. The main issue with point to point flying is that you're trying to do your utmost to make it a pleasant flight, so you do your damndest to fly straight and level, avoid storms, and ensure uneventful arrivals. Training on the other hand you do the exact opposite. I always feel better after getting 3 days of hard training in.

_________________
---Rusty Shoe Keeper---


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 345 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 23  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.midwest2.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.tat-85x100.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.tempest.jpg.