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28 Mar 2024, 16:07 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2021, 09:17 
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What is the insurance market like? From what I've heard recently on the IV-P, there's only one or two options with a lot of drama going on.


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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2021, 10:47 
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As I said I would like to hear from owners and they claim numbers not quite as good as the website but pretty darn close. I agree that you can get an old TBM for less, but as another poster stated, maintenance will quickly eat up that differential. In any event I wanted to compare this plane to the M600 because the performance specs seem pretty similar. Interesting that there is actually more cockpit room in the refurbished version than the original.
If you don't need six seats this is certainly an option. Another plus over the M600 is that this fits in a T hangar. Also for the price you are getting pretty much a brand new aircraft. New engine, avionics and a refurbished airframe. If you compare a brand new A36 at just under 1M and this plane just over 1M, I think you'd have a lot of thinking to do.


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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 12:40 
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As I said I would like to hear from owners and they claim numbers not quite as good as the website but pretty darn close. I agree that you can get an old TBM for less, but as another poster stated, maintenance will quickly eat up that differential. In any event I wanted to compare this plane to the M600 because the performance specs seem pretty similar. Interesting that there is actually more cockpit room in the refurbished version than the original.
If you don't need six seats this is certainly an option. Another plus over the M600 is that this fits in a T hangar. Also for the price you are getting pretty much a brand new aircraft. New engine, avionics and a refurbished airframe. If you compare a brand new A36 at just under 1M and this plane just over 1M, I think you'd have a lot of thinking to do.


Are you assuming self insurance? The maintenance differential will likely be eaten up by insurance, or at least a good part of it. Also a TBM has far more room. Also you can sell a TBM in a month. Experimentals often languish on the market for years.

TBM is arguably not as fun to fly, so there are other intangibles, just playing devils advocate.


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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 13:09 
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Username Protected wrote:
As I said I would like to hear from owners and they claim numbers not quite as good as the website but pretty darn close. I agree that you can get an old TBM for less, but as another poster stated, maintenance will quickly eat up that differential. In any event I wanted to compare this plane to the M600 because the performance specs seem pretty similar. Interesting that there is actually more cockpit room in the refurbished version than the original.
If you don't need six seats this is certainly an option. Another plus over the M600 is that this fits in a T hangar. Also for the price you are getting pretty much a brand new aircraft. New engine, avionics and a refurbished airframe. If you compare a brand new A36 at just under 1M and this plane just over 1M, I think you'd have a lot of thinking to do.


Are you assuming self insurance? The maintenance differential will likely be eaten up by insurance, or at least a good part of it. Also a TBM has far more room. Also you can sell a TBM in a month. Experimentals often languish on the market for years.

TBM is arguably not as fun to fly, so there are other intangibles, just playing devils advocate.


A TBM of equal panel and zero time maintenance will be twice the price..

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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 15:52 
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Another poster stated he pays $30,000 a year for insurance. That's probably more than double than a new Bonanza but no so much more than a used M600. Other costs are probably less or comparable. So if you need more seats the M600 is clearly better. If you want more room in the back, again the M600 wins. If you don't need these things, it's something to think about as the costs and performance are comparable. One caveat is though when its for sale time. The M600 will be an easy sell whereas the LX-7 will probably have a limited audience. Some of what you save at purchase time you may lose at sell time.


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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2021, 12:23 
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As a 50% partner in a 2016 M600, I completely agree with Gary. We pay in the 20s for insurance on our M600, but agree that the cabin experience is superior in an M600 by a wide margin, including better pressurization differential along with lots of room and an air stair door, effective A/C, among other things.

But on the back end, these experimental turbines are not easy to sell ... small group of interested buyers. My friend with his IVPT tried to sell it and could not find a buyer who would execute, for example. The Evos have tended to sit on the market for a long time (not forever, just a long time). So if you look at an LX7, you have to go in with your eyes open for both the value proposition up front and the potential issues down the road ...


Last edited on 08 Jul 2021, 16:55, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2021, 13:50 
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Username Protected wrote:
As a 50% partner in a 2016 M600, I completely agree with Gary. We pay Lin the 20s for insurance on our M600, but agree that the cabin experience is superior in an M600 by a wide margin, including better pressurization differential along with lots of room and an air stair door, effective A/C, among other things.

But on the back end, these experimental turbines are not easy to sell ... small group of interested buyers. My friend with his IVPT tried to sell it and could not find a buyer who would execute, for example. The Evos have tended to sit on the market for a long time (not forever, just a long time). So if you look at an LX7, you have to go in with your eyes open for both the value proposition up front and the potential issues down the road ...



Love the m600.. aaand it is 2-3x the price of the lx7… it had better be for good reason… .. clearly the m600 is a winner and you need enough $$$ to anti up…
.-
And it has different flight profile.. you really need to fly higher with the big -42 compared to the smaller -20 or -28…. So the psi for the designed altitude is about the same….compare dollar for dollar, what does $1m buy you? perhaps in your case, half a plane?….. also the ivpt is known as a pilot killer, not so On the lx7 with new wing and tail….

In the turbine world, $1m can buy you a state of art avionics USED meridian, Jetptop, Silver Eagle, maybe some twins…in piston you can buy new…

So if you have $1m and a typical flight of 2 people with sometimes 3-4.. the lx7 offers a great fast travel value… because of its low production numbers, some risk on the sell side exists, time will tell reality… I have not seen one come up for sale yet…


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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2021, 14:29 
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I have not seen one come up for sale yet…
Really? A search for "lx7 for sale" finds one right away
https://www.globaljetaviation.com/detai ... tates/3681


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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2021, 15:39 
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I have not seen one come up for sale yet…
Really? A search for "lx7 for sale" finds one right away
https://www.globaljetaviation.com/detai ... tates/3681



Aaaaaand.. now I have.. ha!

That airframe has 10 hrs on it? Not sure what is up with that one… I remember hearing hull #1 had some bugs and RDD took it back with full refund… so I wonder if that is hull #1 being fixed and sold as used… not sure.. just speculation…

But it seems odd with TTSN is 10 hrs

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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2021, 18:20 
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These comments are by no means a knock on any of the aircraft mentioned - but if you want to see what the terrible side of the already challenging aviation insurance market looks like - buy an Evolution, Lancair IVP, LX7 or Epic LT (or even E1000 for that matter), and have your broker provide you with what insurance looks like based on your quals. All those aircraft mentioned have max 2 and possibly only 1 underwriting option in total from the 12 or so current underwriting pool.

The experimental turbine world right now is very very very tough respects insurance (worst I have seen it since the mid 2000's). I would encourage anyone seriously looking at these models to consult insurance first before investing a lot of time on an acquisition. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2021, 18:10 
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Tom's right. It's give and take in experimental TPs. Insurance and support may be touch and go. Get those bases covered and the ownership experience can be good.


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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 00:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
I would encourage anyone seriously looking at these models to consult insurance first before investing a lot of time on an acquisition. :thumbup:


It’s argue this is true of any Aircraft.


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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 08:06 
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Username Protected wrote:
I would encourage anyone seriously looking at these models to consult insurance first before investing a lot of time on an acquisition. :thumbup:


It’s argue this is true of any Aircraft.


Not really - the experimental turbines seem to be moreso.
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 Post subject: Re: RDD LX-7
PostPosted: 22 Jul 2021, 10:14 
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Username Protected wrote:

I’d argue this is true of any Aircraft.


Not really - the experimental turbines seem to be moreso.


Of course. I was just making the point that before you spend time and money on a potential new aircraft, talk to your insurance broker. Many deals have disintegrated over insurance. Experimental Turbines are an extreme example.

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