banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 15:47 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: CJ3 Take off performance Hot & High
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2021, 18:21 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 03/28/17
Posts: 6627
Post Likes: +7925
Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
Username Protected wrote:
I feel like that cruise speed in a jet is all in our heads.

My friend that flies a Citation X says the hot days when it won't go .97 are miserable for him...

Yet between climb holds, terminal speeds, vectors etc they all arrive at the destination within a few minutes of each other.

280 vs 445 true? Yea that moves the car reservation time a good amount.

410 to 445? Not a material difference in reality. The perception makes us antsy af for sure.

:box: #bringontheheat


Yeah, but nothing is more annoying than being stuck behind a slow guy :D

When you are doing a PBI-TEB type route along with everyone else, and you can't get 450 'cuz someone is doing .73 up there, and you want to go .80, it's first-world problem annoying. (Is this how Citation X/other fast jet drivers feel all the time?)

On a ~2100 nm stage length (think TEB-VNY) the Citation X going .90 gets there about a half-hour faster than a jet doing .80 M.

Bottom line, I mostly agree with you that it becomes a "nah, my jet gets there faster" type debate that matters less in the real world.


It must really be annoying when the fast jet drivers get assigned Mach numbers on oceanic crossings, and get in line with everybody else. :D

The fast jet drivers complaining about reduced speeds must not be getting paid on block time. Not that I would do it of course, but there were guys I flew with who consistently throttled back a little because they were getting paid on block time and they subscribed to the theory that no airplane should taxi faster than a man can walk. :D

Top

 Post subject: Re: CJ3 Take off performance Hot & High
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2021, 08:56 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 32
Post Likes: +25
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Aircraft: Phenom 300
Username Protected wrote:
There's only so much you can do with a straight wing. The p300e is in a different league of fuel burn and maintenance cost. For what the cj3 is I think it does it phenomenally well. 420+ knots at 840pph ain't no slouch and not that noticable on 2 hour trips.

The cj4s semi swept wing allows a few more mach's.


I wouldn't say the P300 is a different league of fuel burn. Depending on ISA of course, but the P300 will do 420 kts at FL450 at 900pph (134 gal/hr), a whopping 7% increase ;)

The maintenance packages on the P300 are really well aligned, if flying less than 800 hrs per year you only need to visit the shop once.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2021-06-26 at 08.52.40.png


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

_________________
ATP | Phenom 300 N329MC, Icon A5 N1BA | Ex SR22G3 TN, G1, Eclipse 500, Carbon Cub, Phenom 100


Top

 Post subject: Re: CJ3 Take off performance Hot & High
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2021, 20:21 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 05/08/13
Posts: 437
Post Likes: +228
Company: Citation Jet Exchange
Location: St. Louis
Aircraft: 58P C510 C525 Excel
Not to nitpick but I was at FL450 last week isa -2 mid weight 800pph or might have been 780pph at 415tas in the cj3+.

Both great airplanes.

Bonus points to cj3+ for no $100k+ landing gear overhaul requirements!

_________________
The Citation Jet Exchange
www.CitationJetX.com
CJs, Mustangs, Excels


Top

 Post subject: Re: CJ3 Take off performance Hot & High
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2021, 21:00 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 32
Post Likes: +25
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Aircraft: Phenom 300
Username Protected wrote:
Not to nitpick but I was at FL450 last week isa -2 mid weight 800pph or might have been 780pph at 415tas in the cj3+.

Both great airplanes.

Bonus points to cj3+ for no $100k+ landing gear overhaul requirements!


Both great for sure, just didn’t want to leave the impression that the fuel burn was substantially higher.

Yeah landing gear is a sore point. Mine is going in for service in October, I am using one of alternative PMA providers.

_________________
ATP | Phenom 300 N329MC, Icon A5 N1BA | Ex SR22G3 TN, G1, Eclipse 500, Carbon Cub, Phenom 100


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.tat-85x100.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.