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28 Mar 2024, 10:46 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2021, 07:20 
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Joined: 01/11/11
Posts: 1094
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Company: FUSION
Aircraft: B300ER B200 C90 DHC6
Username Protected wrote:
Does anybody know if as well as ferry tanks they add a system so they can add oil?
Fairly easy install. Place a plastic “garden pressure sprayer” on the copilot’s floor, filled with 100W. The hose goes through the firewall to the top of the engine’s oil filler neck (or modified oil cap). Knowing your engine consumption, hand-pump one quart of oil every so many hours :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 07 Jun 2021, 18:53 
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Joined: 02/23/17
Posts: 170
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Location: KSSF
Aircraft: T210N,182Q,310R
You mean a piston engine needs oil added, must have a problem if it wont make it to oil change without adding oil.


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 09:42 
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Joined: 08/10/15
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Aircraft: PA-18 & 206
He had 146 gallons of fuel & landed with 10 remaining.


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 10:54 
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Joined: 01/15/11
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Location: Elk City, OK
Aircraft: B55 P2 & 210
Username Protected wrote:
He had 146 gallons of fuel & landed with 10 remaining.

Wow, that's 45 minutes to an hour left. That's cutting it a little closer than I would like. Then again, even though I have never had an engine quit spinning in the 28 years that I have owned my 210, I wouldn't go across an ocean even at gunpoint.

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Bobby Southard


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 11:08 
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Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 4573
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Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
Did anyone look at the winds for this flight? Looks like he must have had net near 0 headwind. I’ve looked at the winds often but usually at 260-280 and have never not seen a significant headwind for a westbound flight.


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 14:17 
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Joined: 12/01/10
Posts: 330
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Location: The Woodlands, Tx. (KDWH)
Aircraft: B36TC (TN), Model 12
What happens when you don’t make it..... :bugeye:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... ihnkj5y2z-


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 19:42 
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Joined: 02/21/18
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Aircraft: C182R
Username Protected wrote:
He had 146 gallons of fuel & landed with 10 remaining.


That seems like remarkably little fuel. I'm planning on carrying 260 gallons when I do it in my 182, and having about 30 remaining on landing. Is a 210 that much more efficient?


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 22:43 
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Joined: 11/09/13
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Location: Camarillo, Ca.
Aircraft: 2005 Meridian
Username Protected wrote:
He had 146 gallons of fuel & landed with 10 remaining.


At 15 hrs. that's 9 gallons per hour, that's an LOP to the max, maybe 240 gallons?


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 22:48 
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Joined: 09/09/13
Posts: 338
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Location: Ballarat, Australia
Aircraft: C177rg
Cutting it very fine. I bet he had some uncomfortable moments worrying about fuel.


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 23:08 
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Joined: 01/02/08
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Company: Rusnak Auto Group
Location: Newport Coast, CA
Aircraft: Baron B55 N7123N
Username Protected wrote:
Cutting it very fine. I bet he had some uncomfortable moments worrying about fuel.

Bill Harrelson has the solution for that. Header tank used last with a sight gage - precise information without any reliance on electronics.

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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 00:40 
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Joined: 12/07/17
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Company: Malco Power Design
Location: KLVJ
Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
Cutting it very fine. I bet he had some uncomfortable moments worrying about fuel.

Bill Harrelson has the solution for that. Header tank used last with a sight gage - precise information without any reliance on electronics.


Id be less concerned with knowing how much I had (my totalizers are dang near perfect at each fill up) and much more with just running out. I’m sure there had to be a long time there where he showed both negative FOD and negative fuel to return to California.

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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 16:07 
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Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 1913
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Location: KCRQ
Aircraft: Breeezy, 182,601P
KWVI to PHJR 2106 NM. (route flown)
KWVI to PHTO is 2024...
KWVI to PHHN is 2029...

You can see a small dogleg in the course and a few knot increase in speed toward the end of the flight...
My guess is they were very conservative until sure they had it made then diverted to where they actually wanted to go.


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 21:24 
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Joined: 08/28/10
Posts: 876
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Location: Anchorage, AK (PAMR)
Aircraft: 1966 Bonanza V35-TC
I’ve done 9 Bonanza round trips to the Hawaiian Islands, in three different airplanes, an N35, an A36TC, and our current V35TC, since 1975. Some remarks:

Most people take more gas than prudent. Reasonable would IMO be computed burn to destination plus another 10% enroute reserve, fuel to alternate, plus another 90-120 minutes.
More than that decreases performance unnecessarily and adds risk. I carried 230 in the N35 and the V35TC, too much, 300 in the A36TC, way too much.

Most plan this at constant power, as I did my first 3 times. Finally I went to constant AoA, low altitude, high cruise power, step climbing as fuel consumed, reducing CAS but maintaining same KTAS all the way -while planned fuel flow would reduce by about a third. All LOP after initial climb through the pattern. Flown referencing computed KCAS for airplane weights as fuel was consumed.

There is generally a Pacific high pressure between mainland and Hawaii. Heading to Hilo, if the high is north of track, it’s a tailwind; if south it’s a headwind. Wind forecasts online are excellent.

A prudent fuel plan estimates fuel and time to waypoints all the way. The ETP, equal time point is computed according to winds and projected groundspeeds. Getting to early waypoints on more than 110% estimated fuel is a clue to turn around well before the ETP- by then it makes no difference.

The reality is that weight profoundly affects performance. The CAS for best range, Vldmax, varies with weight by formula. V2 = V1 (W2/W1)1/2 . SR, air mpg, varies by SR2= SR1 (W1/W2) .
Knowing Vldmax and SR by one weight, you can compute for each 100Lb of fuel burn and make a spreadsheet. It’s all in the math, including weight and balance. My preferred CAS was 116% Vldmax for weight reducing computed SR by 4%.

Most flights go with a special flight permit for 15-30% over gross. That legality does not improve safety, instead it places all responsibility on the operator with very little added support.

I never saw oil go down more than a pint. Never pooped in the air. Consumed lots of fluids, voided into an empty jug 3-4 times on a 14 hour flight. Hydration is important, as well as oxygen, via nasal cannula above 5,000 feet, to stay sharp.

Aircraft deliveries through Hawaii to Asia are probably way down now that Russia is opening their facilities. An ATW flight by Shinji Maeda in a P35, w 20 gallon tips only, is now finishing successfully.

Crossing on 136 gallon fuel burn in a C210 sounds well planned and executed, perhaps a bit light on reserves.


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2021, 14:13 
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Joined: 03/23/14
Posts: 994
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Location: LOIH
Aircraft: P210N, RV-4
Quote:
- what you do if you need to take a number 2 and you're 11 hours from Hilo?


1. Fly alone
2. Go to the toilet before leaving the hotel. Even if you have to stay 60 minutes longer.
3. If 2 doesn't work, try again at the airport before departure.

I always have some plastic bags and paper with me. The ones you can tie up properly.
Never had to do nr 2 on a crossing. Yet.

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Dulce bellum inexpertis


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 Post subject: Re: 210 to hawaii
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2021, 14:37 
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Joined: 08/28/10
Posts: 876
Post Likes: +692
Location: Anchorage, AK (PAMR)
Aircraft: 1966 Bonanza V35-TC
PS: The V35TC is the winner:
Easily flown LOP all altitudes up to 17.5 or beyond.
Gets 13.7 Hp/gal/hr vs 14.9 for a normally aspirated Bonanza,
but,
Not a problem, since it is CAS that is important, and altitude reduces CAS.
Easily will step climb or drift up climb at a decreasing target CAS all the way to top of descent, which can be high teens and faster vs low teens and slower for a NA bird. Altitude is the key to better KTAS.
Gami spread of zero, if accomplished, adds noticeable harmony to engine ops.


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