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 Post subject: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 29 May 2021, 20:49 
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Joined: 03/15/08
Posts: 2964
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Location: Loveland, CO
Aircraft: 35C-33
Helping with a Hurricane restoration.... put Trig remote stuff in it. Seemed right. Factory wanted to debate the fact that we didn't hook up the intercom: It's a ONE seat airplane -- nobody to converse with! Hard problem was finding a decent IFR cert altimeter with a 6:00 clock baro knob as was the original. This airplane was actually manufactured in Canada so it has a mixture of British hardware and AN.

I thought the treatment on the rudder trim tab was interesting. Has small counterweights ahead of the hinge line just like a Piper Comanche rudder.

And I had to admire the safety job on one of the aileron supports. Every molecule pounded into submission.

Beautiful restoration -- heading to KOSH the gods willing. The complexity is just staggering! How did they build all this stuff?

BH


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 00:20 
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Joined: 06/17/14
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Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
Username Protected wrote:
Beautiful restoration -- heading to KOSH the gods willing. The complexity is just staggering! How did they build all this stuff?


Take a look around at the ladies and gents of later generations who were sticking their hand out to pick up a hammer, shovel, or slide rule since they were crumb crunchers. They were able to walk over to friends houses and then run to the school to play without getting kidnapped or their parents getting arrested. They just had to stay together and be home by dark.

They would come out and work on the car with Mom or Dad or Grandma or Grandpa on the weekends. My grandmother had a 2 car garage with woodworking and metalworking equipment. Until I was in my 20's I didn't realize how cool that was and stayed away from most of it.


Now take a look around at this generation sticking their hand out to grab their mobile device and never leaving their chair...
...nuff said.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 07:33 
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Joined: 02/28/17
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Location: Panama City, FL
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Username Protected wrote:
Beautiful restoration -- heading to KOSH the gods willing. The complexity is just staggering! How did they build all this stuff?


Take a look around at the ladies and gents of later generations who were sticking their hand out to pick up a hammer, shovel, or slide rule since they were crumb crunchers. They were able to walk over to friends houses and then run to the school to play without getting kidnapped or their parents getting arrested. They just had to stay together and be home by dark.

They would come out and work on the car with Mom or Dad or Grandma or Grandpa on the weekends. My grandmother had a 2 car garage with woodworking and metalworking equipment. Until I was in my 20's I didn't realize how cool that was and stayed away from most of it.


Now take a look around at this generation sticking their hand out to grab their mobile device and never leaving their chair...
...nuff said.

Gotta be a BT record. Two posts before it's completely off the rails. :crazy:

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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 10:23 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Username Protected wrote:
Now take a look around at this generation sticking their hand out to grab their mobile device and never leaving their chair...
...nuff said.

“You kids get off my lawn!”

:roll:

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-Jon C.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 20:46 
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Location: KJYO
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Indeed it is. The problem is there are no kids outside to be told to get off my lawn!

Tell me how I am wrong. Stick up for the selfie generation.

A lot of folks keep complaining about the lack of A&Ps and whine about how you/we get ticked off paying $75/hr for someone to work on your/our flying steed or $115/hr for someone to fix your/our fridge or washer.

How many kids do you see in the science fair, minus 2020, versus how many you saw 20 years ago? The halls are a lot less full (pre-pandemic). The quality of the work participants are producing is up based upon observation but this is Northern VA.

How many kids do you see starting in A&P school today versus how many you saw 20 or 30 years ago? How many are wrenching on aircraft or choosing desk jobs?

The number of students and schools participating in spelling bees has decreased by about 27% over the past 20 years but I am not here to pick on middle schoolers.

How many garages are offering $40/hr or more for mechanics and still not able to find good mechanics pre-pandemic?

For that matter, how many summer camps pre-COVID were having problems finding folks, typically college students, to work the camp?

Is my assessment based upon observation off the rails?

You may counter and say -
How many kids can get in-state tuition at UVA with less than a 4.0? Point well taken. There are some exceptional kids out there.

However there are not as many kids excited about working on cars and aircraft or even running across my lawn or the HOA’s fields!


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 20:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
Now take a look around at this generation sticking their hand out to grab their mobile device and never leaving their chair...
...nuff said.

“You kids get off my lawn!”

:roll:


Better yet, put down the mobile devices and get out of the house! Run across my lawn headed to the HOA's fields.

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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 20:50 
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Joined: 02/21/18
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Username Protected wrote:
Indeed it is. The problem is there are no kids outside to be told to get off my lawn!

Tell me how I am wrong. Stick up for the selfie generation.


Sounds like the older generation did a lousy job raising their kids, huh?


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 20:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
Gotta be a BT record. Two posts before it's completely off the rails. :crazy:


Are you saying that this generation is better than the "greatest generation"? Please do tell me how this generation is better than the women who built the aircraft that "won the war" and the several examples of which are still flying. Please do tell me about the women and men maintaining those aircraft and which generation(s) they are from...

I may be :crazy: but I am listening.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 20:53 
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Joined: 06/17/14
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Username Protected wrote:
Indeed it is. The problem is there are no kids outside to be told to get off my lawn!

Tell me how I am wrong. Stick up for the selfie generation.


Sounds like the older generation did a lousy job raising their kids, huh?


Maybe we have...

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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 21:07 
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Joined: 10/05/11
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Company: Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
Bill,

Help me understand what I am looking at.

Does the cable adjust the tab and the counterweights are for the rudder itself?

Edit to add... are the weights to prevent flutter of the tab?

For the folks lamenting the lack of mechanical and electromechanical ability of today's youth, go spend some time learing about the FIRST high school robotics programs, http://www.firstinspires.com

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Be Nice


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 21:21 
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Location: KJYO
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Jim - it is an amazing program and I am very familiar with it and the outcomes. I only wish that we had more kids interested in it and other mechanical engineering programs. Fortunately ‘nerd’ is no longer an insult, or at least it isn’t in NOVA.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 21:36 
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Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
Username Protected wrote:
Help me understand what I am looking at.

Does the cable adjust the tab and the counterweights are for the rudder itself?

It looks like the cable adjusts the trim tab and the horn does double duty as a bracket/moment arm for the cable as well as a standoff bracket to hold the weights.

The weights look to be trim tab balance.

The cable passing through the leather washer/grommet, that's some golden age of aviation engineering!

I might be misunderstanding what I'm looking at- that turnbuckle being that close to the leather washer pass-through looks too close, that it might foul.



On a related thought, I don't know (not sure I've ever heard) if the Hurricane had trim tabs or servo tabs. The Hurricane was a really neat airplane. It was a monoplane derivative of the fast Hart/Fury biplanes but at the same time it was a pretty big step forward. The same man behind those airplanes had a big part designing the Harrier too.

Just think- between the Hurricane and the Spitfire, the Hurricane was the one that was cheaper and easier to work on.


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 30 May 2021, 22:17 
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Joined: 10/05/11
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Company: Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
Username Protected wrote:
Jim - it is an amazing program and I am very familiar with it and the outcomes. I only wish that we had more kids interested in it and other mechanical engineering programs. Fortunately ‘nerd’ is no longer an insult, or at least it isn’t in NOVA.


Best quote I've heard at any FIRST event, I think it was from Dr. Woody Flowers,

"As a society, we become what we celebrate."

I find the FIRST program incredibly inspiring. It celebrates all the right things....

Innovation
Collaboration
Coopertition
And
Gracious Professionalism

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Be Nice


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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 31 May 2021, 07:39 
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Joined: 02/28/17
Posts: 1206
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Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
Username Protected wrote:
Gotta be a BT record. Two posts before it's completely off the rails. :crazy:


Are you saying that this generation is better than the "greatest generation"? Please do tell me how this generation is better than the women who built the aircraft that "won the war" and the several examples of which are still flying. Please do tell me about the women and men maintaining those aircraft and which generation(s) they are from...

I may be :crazy: but I am listening.

Please show me where I made ANY statement about capabilities of this or any other generation.

I was simply pointing out (apparently not simply enough) that someone posts about the need for an intercom on a single seat aircraft, rudder counterweight, and safety wiring when someone comes in and hijacks the thread on the very first response.

So yeah, :crazy: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Hawker Hurricane Flutter Fix
PostPosted: 31 May 2021, 09:56 
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Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 7895
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Aircraft: Warbirds
Username Protected wrote:
Bill,

Help me understand what I am looking at.

Does the cable adjust the tab and the counterweights are for the rudder itself?

Edit to add... are the weights to prevent flutter of the tab?

For the folks lamenting the lack of mechanical and electromechanical ability of today's youth, go spend some time learing about the FIRST high school robotics programs, http://www.firstinspires.com

Spitfire has about a 525 MPH VNE on the Griffon powered versions. Far greater speed than a Hurricane. Rudder and Elevator covered in Cotton, well, Irish Linen. No counter balanced Trim Tabs.
Interesting it needed that on the Hurricane

_________________
Be careful what you ask for, your mechanic wants to sleep at night.


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