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19 Jun 2021, 15:26 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 04:51 
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Joined: 03/01/15
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Location: Ft Worth
Not much info out there but seems like they hold value and perform. Any real world cost of ownership and/or experience reports? Curious about the bigger 1000 with - 10s, and why not citation etc instead for less $?


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 10:44 
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Company: Naples Jet Center
Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
Username Protected wrote:
Not much info out there but seems like they hold value and perform. Any real world cost of ownership and/or experience reports? Curious about the bigger 1000 with - 10s, and why not citation etc instead for less $?


All I have is information Howard. Feel free to call me.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 10:55 
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Joined: 03/06/15
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Company: Michael Dunlevie PC
Location: Eagle, CO / Bermuda Dunes, CA
Aircraft: 1960 M35
Bruce and http://www.twincommandergroup.com/index.php, Adam F has been doing lots to his too.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 11:40 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Bruce has forgotten more about TC's than I've ever known! Give him a call.

The 1000 model is the ultimate TC. Wonderful aircraft. The 900 model is very similar and alternative in same class.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 12:00 
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- Turbine step up?

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=97688

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switching gears..


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 12:10 
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
- Turbine step up?

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=97688


That thread with my old first gen turbine is probably not so relevant for the OP. But here's a good one on this forum that covers a lot of bases of the later models:

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=135179&p=1864531&hilit=turbo+commander#p1864531

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 12:27 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Buy one fast, the moment Adam starts talking about airplanes they seem to get hot.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 09 May 2021, 07:43 
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Thanks for comments and links. If reading it right seems like a fairly small community with tribal knowledge so a little hard to extract market data. Only a few sale listings of the different variants show price. Is it the sellers market or do these things always trade over 1.4M? What mission will a 950, 1000 accomplish better than a well sorted legacy citation jet at same price? The efficiency seems good with the 1000 so direct operating costs are lower. Big Ted Smith fan but just playing devils advocate to get better sense of the 'other' guys reason to buy in when presumably another 50% in annual opex won't break someone with 1.5 in cash for an older turboprop


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 09 May 2021, 07:50 
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Joined: 01/18/11
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Location: Lake Marion, SC KOGB
Aircraft: B60 Duke
Username Protected wrote:
Thanks for comments and links. If reading it right seems like a fairly small community with tribal knowledge so a little hard to extract market data. Only a few sale listings of the different variants show price. Is it the sellers market or do these things always trade over 1.4M? What mission will a 950, 1000 accomplish better than a well sorted legacy citation jet at same price? The efficiency seems good with the 1000 so direct operating costs are lower. Big Ted Smith fan but just playing devils advocate to get better sense of the 'other' guys reason to buy in when presumably another 50% in annual opex won't break someone with 1.5 in cash for an older turboprop

The commander will cost less than half the citation with 50 flights a year.
Probably much less considering training and insurance.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 09 May 2021, 08:54 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks for comments and links. If reading it right seems like a fairly small community with tribal knowledge so a little hard to extract market data. Only a few sale listings of the different variants show price. Is it the sellers market or do these things always trade over 1.4M? What mission will a 950, 1000 accomplish better than a well sorted legacy citation jet at same price? The efficiency seems good with the 1000 so direct operating costs are lower. Big Ted Smith fan but just playing devils advocate to get better sense of the 'other' guys reason to buy in when presumably another 50% in annual opex won't break someone with 1.5 in cash for an older turboprop


Contact Bruce directly, he'll have real comps from which to make a decision. In the PC12 world, albeit slightly more airplanes, you know to the nearest 50k what the bird is currently worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 09 May 2021, 22:07 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
Thanks for comments and links. If reading it right seems like a fairly small community with tribal knowledge so a little hard to extract market data. Only a few sale listings of the different variants show price. Is it the sellers market or do these things always trade over 1.4M? What mission will a 950, 1000 accomplish better than a well sorted legacy citation jet at same price? The efficiency seems good with the 1000 so direct operating costs are lower. Big Ted Smith fan but just playing devils advocate to get better sense of the 'other' guys reason to buy in when presumably another 50% in annual opex won't break someone with 1.5 in cash for an older turboprop


Howard, only a few years ago, you could pretty regularly get a 690B with -10's for $600K-650K. The Jetprops with the -10's were always closer to $1M. Now, the frenzy has kind of spread to airplanes as well, so prices are a little higher than they used to be, but it's pretty fair to say that Turbo Commanders has a dedicated market and they tend to retain value pretty well. Even during lean times, they rarely drop through the floor.

Obviously not quite as fast as a Citation I (but almost), opex will probably be close to half. And the TPE's have the trifecta of very long TBO, cheap overhauls and lowest fuel burn in its class, making them perfect for owner/operators and part 91.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 10 May 2021, 00:38 
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Joined: 02/09/09
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Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
Username Protected wrote:
What mission will a 950, 1000 accomplish better than a well sorted legacy citation jet at same price?


The Citation will have to stop for fuel on a 1000 NM flight, so the Commander will beat it to it's final destination...


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 10 May 2021, 00:40 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Username Protected wrote:
What mission will a 950, 1000 accomplish better than a well sorted legacy citation jet at same price?


The Citation will have to stop for fuel on a 1000 NM flight, so the Commander will beat it to it's final destination...


Yep, the best speed mod is long range tanks! :thumbup:
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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 11 May 2021, 09:53 
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
You also must love talking to people, because, well, that's just how it is with Commanders. They come out of the woodwork with them. I had barely shut down at KEMT yesterday, when two random dudes roll up right after each other just to chat. It was the same when I had the 520 - always someone slowing down their truck to chat.

On pretty much each shut down, or each refueling:

"Wow! Don't see these much anymore".
"What kinda speeds you get out of that thing?"
"My dad used to own one of these"
"I flew cancelled checks in a 500B back in the 70's! Good times"
"Always wanted one"
"They just look cool"

Something about Commanders that captures people's imagination. When I had Aerostar, nobody stopped to talk ever.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Commanders
PostPosted: 11 May 2021, 10:10 
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Joined: 11/09/09
Posts: 2200
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Location: KHII & KREI
Aircraft: RV6A, C182M
Our sheriff's department has operated a Grand Renaissance Commander for 20 years now. It's been a good airplane but as I recall parts were hard to come by at one point but not sure if that's changed recently or not.

Dave


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