Interested in M350 “dispatch reliability”, yearly insurance/annual costs, initial and yearly training requirements, and overall experience.
Yes, I am aware of MMOPA forum but thought I would start here.

No experience flying(one trip)/owning but recently looked into this route. Roughly take your current G36 costs with the exception of fuel (nearly identical if able to run LOP, some can and do, most don't) and double it. You’ll be close. Engine dispatch slightly worse than yours because of turbos, but no worse than other turbos, pressurization said to be pretty reliable but there’s always Murphy. Heated windshield will eventually wear out due to cycles and if you can find one plan on $30-40k. Actual owners better able to tell you life expectancy but from memory it’s in the 10-15yr range, so not a frequent expense but when due, ouch.

Sure is a nice quiet cabin though and ramp appeal for a piston is hard to beat, pressurization would be welcomed. The guys that have them sure seem to love em. Tempting, but decided to stay put.

Meant to get you in the ballpark, real owners I’m sure will have more accurate info.

I have had my 2013 Mirage since early 2021. About 200 hrs per year. Bought it from the original owner with 630 hrs on the plane. Dispatch reliability has been perfect but I am proactive with maintenance and as you probably know there are a lot of systems on this plane. The 5.5 pressurization system is rock solid. Figure on ~20k annuals at a service center or known PA46 shops like Malibu Aerospace or Mead. You do want to get these serviced at a shop that really knows the plane. Annual maintenance can certainly be more in any given year. For example, there are two turbos and the overhaul cost today is 6k each. With good care the turbos will last 1000-1300 hrs or so. I insure mine at 850k for the hull and 1mm smooth on liability and my premium is 12k. I have north of 4000 hrs total time. I am expecting my premium to come down substantially( hopefully 10k or under from what I am being told) this year due to a softening insurance market and some new underwriters that have entered the market who are insuring the PA46.

I hope this helps. It is a great traveling machine. As others have said it is expensive but cheap for what it does.



Frank

Had a couple of the predecessors, the Matrix and a Mirage. Had typical scheduled events like oil changes, mags, plugs, tires, annuals, occasional alternator (has 2 with enough juice to run the important stuff), but 1000 hours flying 200 hours/year in the 2 without a single AOG event. It is important to have them maintained by a PA46 expert. They are basically a turbine aircraft with a piston engine. So they are complex. My overall feeling is is that the M350 is the best version yet. Unlike many airframes, Piper year over year updated the airframe, and almost every year brought new technology to the PA46, improved more reliable parts, process improvement, better machining, etc. So newer is better in that airframe. As a downside to frequent updates, even the avionics got year over year upgrades, so some versions have limited upgrade options and may be locked in time for some of the new tech. The latest Nxi version is not backwards compatible with some airframes. Notwithstanding, even the legacy 2010 G1000 is a nice avionics package.

What does a 2025 M350 for 2.0M do better that a 1980s Malibu or 1989 Mirage (if you want same engine) for 500-600k can't? Especially with the ability to put arguably better avionics up front.

To answer your question Ken on a 1986 Malibu, in the last 12 months and 325 hours of flight time, total maintenance was 33k (annual was 18k). (AC issue unfortunately was 10k), insurance 12k with lower time in type pilots. Our insurance requires IPC every year. Overall experience is great as the reputation holds. There's nothing comparable really unless you want to go turbine. Flying at night, it's nice to get high and in the Great Lakes region, it's nice to bust through the winter permacloud and get on top.

I know not a M350, but great platform. Our reliability has been pretty good. Knock on wood, we have not gotten stuck anywhere, but naturally with an older airplane, we have more broken stuff so there's normally something to fix at each oil change or two. For example, we got plane back from annual a month ago and and in those 4 weeks, we've flown 52 hours and will be replacing a EGT probe and left vacuum pump. Relatively small items, but there seems to be always something like that for us.


I will contest: Why a M350 and not a Mirage for hundreds less with the latest and greatest from Garmin?

Way too much to cover in a little post. But much better take off performance than the Malibu, more HP (350 vs 310), better climb, stronger wing (the Meridian spar was used after 1999 in the Mirage with a noticeable reduction in in-flight breakups). The avionics are hands down better in the M350, and you cannot get that level of integration after market. Has multiple redundant sensors that know more about the aircraft, including multiple redundant cabin altitude sensors, which with the integration are actually able use emergency descent mode to descend the aircraft if for some reason the cabin depressurized and the pilot failed to respond and became incapacitated. Full envelope protection, including the ability of the autopilot to automatically take over if it determines that the pilot is out of control. Computerized cabin pressurization which is a great workload reducer, as it grabs information from the flight plan to control ascent, cruise and descent pressurization schedules. Will keep you from burning up your hots, as it has WOW control of sensitive instruments and equipment like prop/windscreen/stall computer to precent those from being burned up by accidentally leaving them on, on the ground. Full CAS messaging for all the engine instruments, with clear voice CAS for most things as opposed to BZZZZZ for stall and other CAS in the Malibu Mirage, which the awesome BOSE headsets will efficiently silence, as opposed to clear voice annunciations on the M350 in the headsets, like Stall Stall, or if falling off the approach system, Localizer, glide slope, airspeed etc. GWX8000 radar and the ability to overlay radar on the moving map. Better custom interiors, Lee aerospace cool view windows, USB-C ports and LEMO plugs at all stations, 110 V power front and back (great for starlink, more room in the cockpit with 1/2 dozen improvements giving more leg, head and hip room. Built in pulse ox always available, better lighting, Diversity transponders, Fully coupled go-around, blue level button, underspeed protection. Just some that I can think of. Plus the fit and finish, and a lot of the little things have been upgraded through process improvements.

Is it worth the extra money? Depends on who is writing the check. But definitely a better aircraft.

That's basically the bottom line. Tons of iterative improvements, which are all nice.

Does it give you more capability? Other than 40 more horsepower and the better wing? Not really.

I owned two piston and one turbine PA46. I would have the oldest and ratty turbine before i would have another piston engine with a turbo. that is not unique to Piper or engine manufacturer. A PT6 at twice TBO is safer than a brand new piston. Don't fear the change to turbine. Its easier to fly.

Agreed. A great Meridian can be had for less than a new M350. In fact, higher time M600’s halfway to TBO are approaching 2M.

Take a look at the JetProp instead of M350, night and day difference with similar operating costs!

Suggest 1999 and later airframe for reasons already mentioned above in the thread.

A nice and low time JetProp in the $1.2-1.5 MM price range will be a lot of bang for your buck. 260KTS TAS at FL270 on 33GPH is hard to beat. Range of 950NM w/ VFR reserves with the extended fuel and large header tank. Full Garmin panel including autopilot and GWX8000 radar (unlock coming Dec 2025) will compete well with M350 avionics offerings.

Turbines are compelling. And the cost of operation is similar over time. A lot less maintenance on the turbine, but maintenance is more expensive when it needs work.

I had the choice of a G1000 Mirage and a non Garmin Meridian for the same price. I personally chose the G1000 Mirage. When you look at the accident record in the PA46 it is different from a lot of light GA aircraft. They are almost always LOC in IMC. These planes fly in weather a lot, and whatever advantage you can get from training and high end avionics the better. Piper embarked on developing an aircraft where (per one of the board members) 90% of historical PA46 accidents would be prevented.

That has culminated in the flagship M600/700 aircraft that had a lot of firsts. First with automatic autopilot engagement with a panicked or out of control pilot with envelope protection. First with autoland. First (and only one as far as I know) that has auto throttles that never sleep. So whether on autopilot or off autopilot, if you start going into a stall in addition to the envelope protection of pitching the nose down etc, the auto throttle will kick in to ensure enough power to pull out the stall. First single with GWX8000.

These planes have become tough to kill. Statistically the M500, M600 and M700 are sitting as one of or the safest single engine turbines right now. 0 fatals in the M600/700 and only one fatal in an M500, that I am aware of, and appears to be a suicide. The non "M" G1000 Mirage and Meridian also have a good safety record, but do lack the envelope protection. They still have a lower fatal rate than the legacy fleet. For those that wonder what makes an "M" different from the pre "M" aircraft it is the envelope protection suites, among some other safetyy upgrades. The G1000 was put in the PA46 starting in late 2009, and then the "M" class started in mid 2015 in the M35/M500, and in the M600 in 2016, and in the M700 which replaced the 600.

For those that don't think avionics make a difference, probably not going to change minds. I think they can. The numbers of the "M" PA46's do look better anyway. Loss of control (usually in IMC) is the major killer in these aircraft, so however you mitigate that risk, just take it seriously.

Piston PA46 is the best economical traveling airplane. I flew mine for around 50k a year for years. That was all in and flying a lot (200ish hours). I averaged 200kts groundspeed. This was an 80s Malibu so slightly better fuel economy. Had one AOG in 600 hours - it was a starter relay on an extremely cold morning. Got it fixed within a day.

Is a Meridian better? I think it really depends on your mission. You have to fly a Meredian above 18k to go more than a few hundred miles. I would often cross country at FL250 in one direction with 100kt tailwind and come the ther way at 4k with a tailwind vs 80kts on the nose. I averaged 192kts groundspeed over 600 hours. I mostly do long flights and the range of the Malibu made door to door times faster because I skipped so many fuel stops.

Agree with points about specific maintenance- however, anyone who works on a turbo cirrus could also work on these. The gear, pressurization and heated glass are not maintenance issues in my experience.

In my opinion I would either go new or old. The original engine was the best one for the airframe. It was faster, lighter and burned less fuel. It’s also the engine in every turbo cirrus so claims about continental reliability are silly.

The new ones don’t go as far but do have improved wing spar (with tie down rings!!) and the interiors and all the tech are obviously better.

Either way, hard to go wrong an any PA46 variant. Truly a great plane.

I test flew a new M350 with a guy from Cutter when they visited town.

Lots of envelope and stability protection but not auto land.

I was wrong earlier.

I do recall the Cutter demo pilot trying to get the aircraft upset at altitude and it would not allow it.

I test flew a new M350 with a guy from Cutter when they visited town.

The most amazing feature is the new Garmin Emergcency Auto Landing system.

Pilot incapacitation? No problem, one of the passengers just hits the magic button and the autopilot takes over, calls ATC, selects and airport and approach and does the rest.

I realize this is an extremely rare situation but the technology is impressive.

Personally I’d look for an old Continental power Malibu; I’m partial to the big bore Continentals.