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30 Jul 2021, 09:02 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 17:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
Either way I wish there was video

Right, what happened to the YouTube army watching this? Didn't have their cameras on?

Seems weird not to have video of the relight and flip.

Of course they caught it :)

The relight began while still in the clouds but Cosmic Perspective caught this awe inspiring footage of the flip as it emerges from the bottom of the overcast. For reference, the Brownsville METAR at the time was calling the clouds 1700 BKN, 2100 OVC.

The video in the tweet has been cropped and the clip is slowed down, but I'm sure they'll polish it up and put it on the web soon enough. For now you have to either go to Twitter, or to Tim Dodd's seven and a half hour live stream and fish for it (hint: start at 6:45:11, it's worth it) < Click my link to go direct to the flip.

Here's Tim's Tweet. The fun starts in the upper right hand corner:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1390125636417642496
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Last edited on 07 May 2021, 08:21, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 21:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
The fun starts in the upper right hand corner:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1390125636417642496

Thanks for that!

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 21:37 
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Wish I was smart enough to contemplate why the motors do that scissor split in many of the videos. Some yaw (roll?) correction? Or just using the split to jink?
I could see a big split helping the “deep throttle” ?

Idk.

Tj

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 08:00 
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Wish I was smart enough to contemplate why the motors do that scissor split in many of the videos. Some yaw (roll?) correction? Or just using the split to jink?
I could see a big split helping the “deep throttle” ?

I think if they needed to throttle down they'd shut down one of the motors entirely; they've done that before. Thinking about it, you may be right in a different way...

It looks like they're using one Raptor to orient the vehicle and position it over the pad, and the other is pointed more or less straight toward the Earth. That may be a way to control the rate of both pitch and translation (I looked and roll isn't changing) while the other motor just works to arrest the descent. That sort of division of labor could effectively "throttle" the effect of each without varying the overall thrust output as much, or allow independent throttle control of each so that one could orient/translate faster while the other managed the rate of descent more precisely. It'd be interesting to hear the answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 23:39 
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Perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 00:01 
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It’s big. The Super Heavy booster that will become its first stage is a little taller than Starship. It will be the largest rocket ever made.

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 07:01 
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Perspective.

those girls' hard hats are a bit like spaceballs helmets. I'll bet there is a non-zero chance that was intentional.

what a great company. Anyone else, with their moon landing contract being contested, would be sitting and waiting. But these folks are charging ahead building prototypes 1000X faster than anyone before. They are basically saying "We are going. Nasa you can be a part of it, or not, but we are going all the same."


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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 08:56 
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I had no idea how big that thing was. I would have guessed it was about 1/10th that height from watching these videos. I am in awe of this company.


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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 09:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
Perspective.

those girls' hard hats are a bit like spaceballs helmets. I'll bet there is a non-zero chance that was intentional.


I'd say it's probably greater than non-zero if you take a look at the names for the "speed modes" in Tesla's cars...ludicrous, plaid, etc...

I'd bet the combo on Elon's luggage is, wait for it, 1, 2, 3, 4.

Best,
Rich

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 09:37 
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I had no idea how big that thing was.

9 m (30 ft) diameter by 50 m (160 ft) high.

For comparison, the Saturn V moon rocket first stage (S-1C) was 10 m (33 ft) and 42 m (138 ft). So in essence, the final stage of the complete Starship rocket is roughly equal to the first stage of the Saturn V.

At liftoff in these tests, the Starship is likely around 1 million pounds total mass.

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 10:31 
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Wish I was smart enough to contemplate why the motors do that scissor split in many of the videos. Some yaw (roll?) correction?

That seems like the only reasonable explanation.

After the flip maneuver, suspect the fuel sloshing causes some roll, so they need to null that out before touchdown.

The engines are close to centerline, so it would take quite a lot of split to react a small amount of yaw rate.

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I could see a big split helping the “deep throttle” ?

Suspect not. First, it would take an 8 degree angle to change the vertical thrust by 1%. The engines didn't go that far. Second, it would introduce a yaw reaction.

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 10:33 
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At liftoff in these tests, the Starship is likely around 1 million pounds total mass.

And on a revenue flight it will have a payload capacity of over 1100 cubic meters (~39000 cuFt) and over 100 metric tonnes (220 klb) to low earth orbit.

The payload bay is 59' high. That compares to a standard 53' long highway trailer, and it's 3,800 cubic feet of space and 45,000 lb payload. It is ten line haul trucks in volume and five in weight . Its purpose is to move Elon to Mars. If NASA wants to hire them to land on the moon, then that's a bonus, but it's not the primary mission, and so SpaceX doesn't have to hang their hat or plan their development schedule around the political whims of NASA or the funding of Congress. It makes for a much more stable and successful program.

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 11:06 
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On the Space Shuttle, the engines were "split" during startup to keep the engine bels from clanging together. I have no idea whether SpaceX does the same during flight for the same reason. You can see what I mean at the very beginning of this video:

http://youtu.be/Mxyqr8BVVTA


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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 11:23 
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On the Space Shuttle, the engines were "split" during startup to keep the engine bels from clanging together. I have no idea whether SpaceX does the same during flight for the same reason.

Spacex does appear to fanout the engines for start.

http://youtu.be/z9eoubnO-pE


Go here to see the start up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9eoubnO-pE&t=730s

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 Post subject: Re: Starship SN-15 Sticks the Landing
PostPosted: 08 May 2021, 13:02 
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Is this the prototype for what they intend to use to land people on the moon?


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