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19 Jun 2021, 14:23 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2021, 16:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
A battery fire would be a major concern of mine.

One possible step in the direction of reducing that risk -
https://www.zeiss.com/microscopy/int/cm ... video.html
Doesn't fix the impracticality.

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 02 May 2021, 11:13 
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Location: Torrance, CA
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Looks like L-3 Harris will be a partner with Bye Aerospace to help develop this aircraft. With the resources of L-3 Harris behind this, they might be able to build quite a few! This might be the role where it could have an application.

https://www.l3harris.com/newsroom/trade ... l-electric


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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 02 May 2021, 12:22 
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Username Protected wrote:
Looks like L-3 Harris will be a partner with Bye Aerospace to help develop this aircraft. With the resources of L-3 Harris behind this, they might be able to build quite a few!

You have the relationship backwards.

L-3 Harris will happily take Bye's money to perform engineering services and supply materials.

You can be very sure the money will not flow the other way.

If I was L-3 Harris, I'd ask for deposits up front on any significant order, too.

Bye is also using the L-3 Harris to buy some credibility. That tactic seems to have worked in your case.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 02 May 2021, 17:25 
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I agree.
particularly true for a company (L3) struggling to strengthen and better define their foothold in the avionics and defense industry.

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 02 May 2021, 18:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
I agree.
particularly true for a company (L3) struggling to strengthen and better define their foothold in the avionics and defense industry.


They are quite established already. Their GA presence is light, but huge in military and air transport


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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 02 May 2021, 22:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
Look at Tesla supercharger stations. The standard ones right now are capable to deliver 2MW (8 250kW stalls) …

You are assuming that all stations can simultaneously charge at the max rate.

Do you have a source that confirms your assumption?

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 02 May 2021, 22:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
Look at Tesla supercharger stations. The standard ones right now are capable to deliver 2MW (8 250kW stalls) …

You are assuming that all stations can simultaneously charge at the max rate.

Do you have a source that confirms your assumption?

Here is the project for one of the newer ones being built right now:
https://madison.legistar.com/View.ashx? ... 5204EFC5AA

The project calls for 866kW load capability.

Ok, it’s below what 2MW but plenty above 600kW called for earlier in this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 03 May 2021, 00:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
The project calls for 866kW load capability.

That will charge one eFlyer 800 and take about 2 hours to do it.

Odds this level of infrastructure exists at your destination airport in your lifetime?

Zero.

Too expensive.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 03 May 2021, 05:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
The project calls for 866kW load capability.

That will charge one eFlyer 800 and take about 2 hours to do it.

Odds this level of infrastructure exists at your destination airport in your lifetime?

Zero.

Too expensive.

Mike C.


All it takes is Musk rolling out his electric jet and he'll put plenty of charging stations up, my guess.
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Last edited on 03 May 2021, 12:54, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 03 May 2021, 09:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
The project calls for 866kW load capability.

That will charge one eFlyer 800 and take about 2 hours to do it.

Odds this level of infrastructure exists at your destination airport in your lifetime?

Zero.

Too expensive.

Mike C.

At my friendly, local, sleepy GA airport? Probably not.
But it's not that expensive to have it at any class D and up very soon.
Look at the project file linked - they install transformers on site, the actual utility part of it is easy, it's the charging hardware that is expensive, assuming that airplane manufacturers can agree on one standard.

The problem I'm seeing is that no FBO can justify economically such charging station. It would need to be built by operation who's willing to put millions into it and wait several years for the return.

I can see though short hop feeders flying electric caravans and couriers on short hops. FedEx? Their feeders rarely fly more than 200 miles, and they have time to charge it slowly

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 03 May 2021, 15:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
But it's not that expensive to have it at any class D and up very soon.

Can only serve one airplane at a time, so not great for a busy airport.

You will have o tow the airplane to the charge stand and back again (can't use "truck service", more like "fuel island").

Quote:
The problem I'm seeing is that no FBO can justify economically such charging station.

Correct.

So you are perpetually stick in the chicken and egg problem. Nobody buys the airplanes due to no charging infrastructure, nobody puts in the charging infrastructure due to no airplanes.

Quote:
I can see though short hop feeders flying electric caravans and couriers on short hops. FedEx? Their feeders rarely fly more than 200 miles, and they have time to charge it slowly

A 200 mile FedEx run is a 400 miles round trip. Not clear they have time to charge it slowly between hops.

You may be surprised how often the C208s fly between cities with not much time between hops.

This could be a good launch application for electric planes, a short routine run with time at each end to recharge. Not going to be a huge market, but it is a start. The PNW seaplane taxi business might work, as I said earlier.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 03 May 2021, 16:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
You will have o tow the airplane to the charge stand and back again (can't use "truck service", more like "fuel island").

Agreed. I was envisioning something like 'x number of designated gates with capability to recharge, that would be used by feeder airlines doing small hops infrequently.

Yes this is classic chicken and egg scenario. Looking at Tesla vs. national charging networks, I'm unfortunately leaning towards Tesla's model which means that it would need to be done by Airbus or Boeing or there will be constant blaming game. I don't trust any of the charging networks to have spot available when they say they do, and it's always somebody else's fault (utility, land owner, operator, network). Only Tesla's charging stations are somewhat immune and always work (or if they don't my car tells me so and I don't even go there)


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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 05 May 2021, 20:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
Charging is not a technical challenge anymore. It's just time and money factor.

And that makes it precisely 0% easier to solve.

All of aviation is time and money.

Heck, so is living on Mars.


Right you are. That's exactly what I say to my clients when they ask if we can do X. I tell them - we can do absolutely anything you want. It's only a matter of time and money.

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 Post subject: Re: Bye Aerospace eFlyer 800
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 09:00 
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Current charging industry economics do not (yet) involve making money by delivering electrons. Some of the players see it as a real estate play. Others are simply selling the gear, project mgt, installation, support and billing to enable others to play. I imagine that Siggy’s infrastructure fee for electric airplanes will be eye watering.

“I wouldn’t want a driver as a customer, because I think I’d starve to death,” said Pasquale Romano, ChargePoint’s chief executive officer, in an interview. “There’s not a lot of money in electricity.”

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