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16 Jun 2021, 06:04 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 10:33 
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Location: Lincoln Park, NJ
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I'm thinking of moving up to a turboprop within the next couple of years. The two planes I'm considering are a used M600 or a Piper Cheyenne II. There is of course about a $1M difference in price but the planes capabilities are similar in many respects. Same airspeed, similar size cabin etc. Pros for the M600 is a much newer plane (40 years) so likely much less maintenance for end of life items, single engine uses half the fuel and half the cost of engine overhaul and maintenance, latest avionics and most likely newer interior and paint. Advantages to the Cheyenne are a significant difference in useful load (1500lbs with full fuel - so you can fill all the seats and still have 300lbs of luggage), a potty for long trips and a much lower price.

While the annual costs are more with the Cheyenne I can't seem to find any real numbers. Assuming about 130 hrs/yr what would be the costs between the two and what other pros/cons am I overlooking.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 11:57 
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Joined: 06/06/12
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Company: FlightRepublic
Location: Bee Cave, TX
Aircraft: DA40, C182
:popcorn:

(But I think I’d choose the Piper.)

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Antoni Deighton


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 12:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
(But I think I’d choose the Piper.)

The other Piper is way better.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 12:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
what other pros/cons am I overlooking.

Cheyenne II has an extra belted seat for when you really have to take that 7th person.
Cheyenne II has the finicky SAS, and you're grounded if it doesn't work.

$1M buys a lot of maintenance and Jet A. The M600 will lose more through depreciation, and will depreciate faster.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 12:57 
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Aircraft: Piper Cheyenne II
I own a Cheyenne II and manage another one - I'll drop you a PM when I get a chance. Bottom line is a Cheyenne I or II (I do prefer the II) is very difficult to beat on a bang-for-buck basis.

That said, it's a 40 year old complex airplane and the (small) list of major high expense items are still expensive, even if they don't increase the already low depreciated value of the airplane. Example - heated windshields are still $40,000 / side. They'll last 20 years or more, but if it pops on your watch it'll be an expensive year. Good news is the list of that kind of thing is pretty small on a Cheyenne. I also have run King Airs for a number of years, so I can give you a good comparison.

Plan $25,000 - $30,000 per year for maintenance (year-in-year-out average), 80 gph at (insert average Jet A cost in your area) per gallon, and the rest you can calculate from your own situation. Insurance has gotten tight for everyone lately, so bring a few hundred hours of multi time and so decent total time and expect to go to school every year.

Your figure for useful load probably came from a brochure. Better of the two I run is 3,430 lbs total. Tanks hold 2,450 lbs total officially (I'll explain), so if you fill the tanks you have abuot 1,000 lbs left. Still pretty darn good.

I can make DC area to mid Florida non stop almost always.

More later...


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 13:00 
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Nothing against 40+ year old planes, since I fly some of that vintage. But if your mission does not include a bunch of overwater flights I would go for the M600. I have no experience in either model, but from what I read the M600 has plenty of range, so if you need to fill the seats, your can leave fuel off.

Rgs,
patrick


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 13:28 
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Location: KMRY
Aircraft: Baron B55
Interesting project log of somebody who took a (somewhat neglected) Cheyenne and brought it up to modern standards, i.e. more comparable to what you'd get with a M600:

https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comment ... oject_log/

Price tag not available, but I would assume it would bridge at least half the value difference... and note that the timeline spans over 2 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 15:35 
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Aircraft: Cheyenne II, BE-55
Just looking at listings on Controller, the least expensive M600 is $1.995 million, so the acquisition cost difference with a Cheyenne II may be much more than $1M.
I've owned my II for 7.5 years. Could not be more satisfied. 1,200 lb. full fuel payload, 255 to 240 ktas, depending on the usual factors, range more than 1,000 nm, good pressurization, good looking on the ramp, reliable, great instrument platform, good engine out characteristics, have not experienced parts problems. My experience is it's been a great way to own a twin turbine and beat or at least be on the favorable side of aircraft market economics.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 17:18 
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My MU2 is 1300 lbs flown 1300 nm, 290-315 KTAS, 6 PSI pressurization, very robust and reliable. Engines last forever, low fuel burn.

Under $500K, so $1.5M less than an M600. Needs paint, though.

Does have special training rules. Mostly a startup issue since you will likely be getting yearly recurrent training anyway for any turboprop due to insurance requirements.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 18:27 
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At the acquisition price, and then 30k a year Maintanence on a Cheyenne 2, doesn’t a citation 525 come out almost the same minus engine reserves (slightly higher on the 525)? What am I missing ?


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 18:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
At the acquisition price, and then 30k a year Maintanence on a Cheyenne 2, doesn’t a citation 525 come out almost the same minus engine reserves (slightly higher on the 525)? What am I missing ?

3x operating expense.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 18:41 
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If it’s an owner pilot, I’m seeing about $1500 per hour for a CJ and about $1050 for a Cheyenne II. The CJ does 360kts, the Cheyenne II is 260kts. When you take speed into consideration, isn’t that close?

Val


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 19:42 
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...similar size cabin etc...


Yeah, I don't think so. Go sit in each.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2021, 22:43 
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Joined: 12/12/10
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If it’s an owner pilot, I’m seeing about $1500 per hour for a CJ and about $1050 for a Cheyenne II. The CJ does 360kts, the Cheyenne II is 260kts. When you take speed into consideration, isn’t that close?

Val


With the specified operating and cost parameters, closer to $800/hr for the PAY2.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cheyenne II vs M600
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2021, 00:22 
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Location: Lincoln Park, NJ
Aircraft: Bonanza - 1997 A36TN
Most of the Cheyenne IIs on controller have engines near TBO so in 2-5 years most will need both engines overhauled. That's probably around 500K. (Unless they offer a 2 for 1 discount :D ). So I think with the M600 continuing to come down a little in price the differential is probably in the 1M ballpark. That still buys a lot of gas and maintenance. But that also depends on how long I would keep the plane. After a while is does start to add up. It seems people are pretty happy with both planes.


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