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28 Mar 2024, 08:08 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 11:04 
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How much weight are you planning to fly? Any obstacles or can you use the first blade of grass on each end? I used to fly an Avid Flyer, which is very similar to the Kitfox, at least to about the KF5. I am 160# and could use 250' out of a 2500' runway most of the time solo. I bounded a 250' strip within the long strip which I did not allow myself to get out of. It became quite easy. That said, there where no obstacles and I could put it down in the first foot, there was no pucker factored for the lack of runway to spare. With this type of airplane an additional 100# considerably changes the performance available. If I want to do this kind of flying on a normal basis, I think that I would choose a Cub derivative. That said, I have not had the opportunity to wring on out, I was just unhappy about a negative performance with a little more weight. It was undoable by the time my son got to be about 10-12 yr old. (He wasn't heavy)

:cheers:


I am 230#, probably another passenger once in a while at 195#. Very rare for a passenger of weight. Mostly wife or kid at sub #105.

Small obstacle at one end, a tree. Maybe 20’ high. Looks like most Cubs are available at $35k, always upgrade the engine at overhaul.


What is our budget? 800 feet is fine if you have nice approaches both ways.

Are you planning on going anywhere (far?) in your plane after you depart your 800' strip?

Tim

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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 11:08 
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Joined: 04/24/14
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I would not buy a Pacer for that mission. I used to own a 150hp Pacer, and with the short wings, even though it has flaps, it is definitely NOT a cub when it comes to short fields!


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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 11:15 
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Maule? Don't know your budget or much about their line but some are STOL capable.

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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 13:13 
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Joined: 07/21/08
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Username Protected wrote:
it's not a tail dragger but it's hard to beat a 701 for this mission. here's a guy in a similar situation

[youtube]https://youtu.be/IFkUMhQ8t9Q[/youtube]

Jon is one of our National STOL competitors, and a really nice guy. The Zenith is a great plane, but it has a face only a mom could love.

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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 13:28 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Yup, the Helio is badass!!!

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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 13:41 
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Joined: 01/07/20
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Location: Kansas City
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If money were no object, a King Katmai.

For the rest of us, a Rans, Zenith, or cub derivative .


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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2021, 13:44 
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Jon is one of our National STOL competitors, and a really nice guy. The Zenith is a great plane, but it has a face only a mom could love.


Ha, yeah... to me it's not that bad with the right paint scheme. The visibility in the cockpit though is incredible. I think they're pretty cool.

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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2021, 17:48 
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If you want the 21st century Helio miniaturized look no further than the Zlin Savage Norden. I believe this is the best tandem two seat STOL aircraft on the planet. Start at 4:40 in this video. https://youtu.be/5Olmfj7O4Ec


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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2021, 21:08 
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If you want the 21st century Helio miniaturized look no further than the Zlin Savage Norden. I believe this is the best tandem two seat STOL aircraft on the planet. Start at 4:40 in this video. https://youtu.be/5Olmfj7O4Ec

That remains to be seen. Calling it the best on the planet is a pretty broad statement. Show me one with 12,000 hours after its hauled moose and fuel in and out of the Alaska backcountry for 20 years or so, and then we can talk.
It's an intriguing aircraft for sure, and I cant wait to get my hands on one, but as of yet its basically vaporware.

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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2021, 22:19 
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Fair enough, but that won’t be the Norden’s mission. It’s not built to haul moose in and out of Alaska. I’m judging it off of its design and I haven’t seen a better STOL wing in GA. It’s most definitely not vaporware, there are already 6 of them built and many of those will be flying within the coming weeks! They’ve sold 50 of them sight unseen...


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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2021, 22:35 
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Fair enough, but that won’t be the Norden’s mission. It’s not built to haul moose in and out of Alaska. I’m judging it off of its design and I haven’t seen a better STOL wing in GA. It’s most definitely not vaporware, there are already 6 of them built and many of those will be flying within the coming weeks! They’ve sold 50 of them sight unseen...

We haven’t seen one yet at a competition. While I love the 915 rotax, 145 hp is pretty unimpressive in the STOL world. I would like to see a true empty weight to get an idea of its ability. The takeoff distances in the video were not very impressive, but that could be due to several factors. If he was truly flying at 15 mph, then I would expect to see sub 25ft takeoffs

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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2021, 22:57 
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Well in the right hands nobody will touch the 300hp EPeX300Ti Norden but the 915 still does great. Takeoffs are around 80ft so far but the 916 at 165hp will surely bring that closer to 60ft. Empty weights from 805-930 pounds depending on options.

The 916 will be ideal in this airframe for sure. I can’t wait to get behind the Norden because of its aerobatic like handling and ultimately how it will make backcountry flying safer while allowing users to still travel at a decent clip.


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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2021, 23:32 
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Username Protected wrote:

What is our budget? 800 feet is fine if you have nice approaches both ways.

Are you planning on going anywhere (far?) in your plane after you depart your 800' strip?

Tim



Budget? I don’t know? Under $50k?

150 mile range maybe. This is weekend fun plane, want to just rip off my ranch and go fly down the coast of San Diego, etc.

Cub is a classic, that’s why I’m leaning that way. $35k, 150 mile range.

I’ve been reading a lot about different engine upgrades, what makes that cub remarkable from a power plant perspective? The 85hp will do 600’?


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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2021, 10:45 
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I’ve watched my share of STOL competition footage. It seems we are creating a set of Frankenstein-planes with slats all over the wings and big wheels etc. - and we will arrive soon at a place where they will plant three wheels on pavement at a full stop and zero forward movement. Heck, we may already be there. But assuming we are not, when that happens, what are y’all going to do then? I presume you will declare victory and go drink beer with the helicopter guys at the very least. :D


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 Post subject: Re: STOL options
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2021, 10:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
I’ve watched my share of STOL competition footage. It seems we are creating a set of Frankenstein-planes with slats all over the wings and big wheels etc. - and we will arrive soon at a place where they will plant three wheels on pavement at a full stop and zero forward movement. Heck, we may already be there. But assuming we are not, when that happens, what are y’all going to do then? I presume you will declare victory and go drink beer with the helicopter guys at the very least. :D

It is pretty neat to watch, the aviation equivalent of drag racing as a spectator sport in the sense that you could, practically speaking, drive a 10 second drag car on the street- and it would make a very... interesting daily driver. It's also a lot of fun learning about all the work that goes into creating those machines.

Random thought that's tangentially pertinent- remember the Custer Channel Wing?


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