banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 14:17 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 08:47 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 12813
Post Likes: +13206
Company: Cogswell Cogs, LLC
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205
[youtube]https://youtu.be/FoQqOPGpzZk[/youtube]

_________________
Life is a DiY project.


Last edited on 14 Mar 2021, 10:54, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Sherry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 08:55 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/13/10
Posts: 20103
Post Likes: +23513
Location: Castle Rock, Colorado
Aircraft: Prior C310,BE33,SR22
The Death of the Ball Turret Gunner
By RANDALL JARRELL

From my mother’s sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

_________________
Arlen
Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
- Mars Bonfire


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sherry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2021, 09:41 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/29/10
Posts: 5681
Post Likes: +4872
Company: USAF Simulator Instructor
Location: Wichita Valley Airport (F14)
Aircraft: Bonanza G35
Just for the record, a company named Sperry built those ball turrets, not a girl named Sherry. Autocorrect tried to “fix” my post to “Sherry” so I’m guessing that’s the cause.

_________________
FTFA RTFM


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2021, 00:36 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 2572
Post Likes: +2329
Company: Retired
Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
Username Protected wrote:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/FoQqOPGpzZk[/youtube]
A lot of inaccuracies for such a short video. Statistics show the ball turret actually had the lowest casualty rate of any B-17 crew position (the position with the highest casualties was waist gunner). The ball gunner did have armor, his seat back. The B-17 ball didn't retract (the B-24 installation of the same turret did). Our ball turret says right on it what type of parachute to wear inside, although many gunners didn't as it made it even more cramped. And it wasn't the most effective gunnery position, none of the 10 (actually 12, due to ties) top scoring B-17 gunners were ball turret gunners, the most common position among the top 12 was top turret, followed by tail.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2021, 04:55 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 06/06/12
Posts: 2290
Post Likes: +2114
Company: FlightRepublic
Location: Bee Cave, TX
Aircraft: DA40, C182
Thanks, Dave. That was really interesting.

_________________
Antoni Deighton
contactlink.to/antoni.deighton


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2021, 11:16 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/30/17
Posts: 198
Post Likes: +159
Great post and very interesting. Thanks for posting and teaching us all something about these airmen.

My Uncle Jack was a B-17 navigator during WW2 (out of Italy - he did missions to Ploesti, Berlin and numerous other dangerous places, and he also met several Tuskegee airmen); he is 96 or 97 if memory serves, and I just heard from our family last night that he is "on short final" at home in Minnesota, and is expected to pass within a few hours or a day. How coincidental to see this post today.

We have lost most of, and are rapidly losing the rest of, the Greatest Generation and that will mark quite a page turn of American history. Which makes preserving the history of these airmen and their equipment all the more important.

When I got my PPL many years ago, Jack gave me his flight computer. Looks just like any whiz wheel you can buy today from Sporty's - and still works obviously. He flew his 25+ missions with it and it is one of my most treasured possessions.

Please take a moment today to reflect on all members of that generation who made sacrifices for all of us, and then lived humbly with that service for the rest of their lives.

Thanks again and fly safe!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2021, 11:55 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/27/18
Posts: 1653
Post Likes: +1514
Location: South NorthEast West Virginia :)
Aircraft: Club Archer
Username Protected wrote:
I just heard from our family last night that he is "on short final" at home in Minnesota, and is expected to pass within a few hours or a day.

Bless your uncle and those like him.
:pray:


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2021, 12:53 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/29/10
Posts: 5681
Post Likes: +4872
Company: USAF Simulator Instructor
Location: Wichita Valley Airport (F14)
Aircraft: Bonanza G35
Username Protected wrote:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/FoQqOPGpzZk[/youtube]
A lot of inaccuracies for such a short video. Statistics show the ball turret actually had the lowest casualty rate of any B-17 crew position (the position with the highest casualties was waist gunner). The ball gunner did have armor, his seat back. The B-17 ball didn't retract (the B-24 installation of the same turret did). Our ball turret says right on it what type of parachute to wear inside, although many gunners didn't as it made it even more cramped. And it wasn't the most effective gunnery position, none of the 10 (actually 12, due to ties) top scoring B-17 gunners were ball turret gunners, the most common position among the top 12 was top turret, followed by tail.

I wonder if the low effectiveness of the ball turret had more to do with opportunity than with the turret itself. Attacking fighters tend to dive from above to build speed and minimize time in range of the bombers’ guns. That would give the top turret more opportunities. A pure pursuit attack (guns pointed at the target) flies a curve that ends up directly behind the target. A fighter driving right up the tail of a bomber has a zero deflection shot but he also gives the tail gunner a zero deflection shot at the fighter, meaning the tail gunner might have a higher probability of an easy shot than the other positions.

The low casualty rate of the ball turret might be partly due to the ball turret gunner, being rolled up in a ball, was the smallest target in the airplane and therefore less likely to be hit. Waist gunners were standing up and there were two of them making them the biggest target in the airplane.
_________________
FTFA RTFM


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2021, 22:42 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 2572
Post Likes: +2329
Company: Retired
Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
Username Protected wrote:
The low casualty rate of the ball turret might be partly due to the ball turret gunner, being rolled up in a ball, was the smallest target in the airplane and therefore less likely to be hit. Waist gunners were standing up and there were two of them making them the biggest target in the airplane.
Exactly. A lot just comes down to how much of your body happens to be in the way of some of the hot metal whizzing around.

The top turret had the largest envelope of coverage, including frontal attacks, the B-17's weak spot favored by the Luftwaffe. The tail gunner's biggest contribution was less any planes he downed than deterring fighters from going for the easy shot from behind.
Attachment:
IMG_20210324_105808847.jpg
Attachment:
IMG_20210324_105833205.jpg


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2021, 21:58 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 06/19/12
Posts: 26
Post Likes: +18
Location: Arlington, WA / Thermal, CA
Aircraft: T182T
A friend of ours, who is still living, was a ball turret gunner. He said that early in the war the parachutes were too bulky to fit in the turret. A wing root hit or other quick bomber demise would take too long to get out and get a chute on. Later in the war the British developed a thin pack chute that could fin inside and act as a cushion. The USAAF adopted that for the ball turrets. After that the gunner could open his hatch to the outside and be the first one out. In some cases, the only one out.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2021, 06:51 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/29/10
Posts: 5681
Post Likes: +4872
Company: USAF Simulator Instructor
Location: Wichita Valley Airport (F14)
Aircraft: Bonanza G35
<Pulls on flame suit and checks the seals and helmet carefully.>

Ok, I’m gonna catch infinite shite for this but here goes. There’s a movie streaming on Amazon Prime, YouTube TV and a few other streaming services called “Shadow in the Cloud” that features a ball turret on a B-17 and one of the prettiest young actresses I’ve seen in a long time. Most BTers will hate it and will say so loudly and vehemently in the posts to follow. I enjoyed it. But then, I like B movies with spirit. Wikipedia has this to say in the “Reception” paragraph:

“ On review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes, 78% of 112 critics gave the film a positive review, and the average rating is 6.3/10. The website's critics consensus reads: "Part creature feature, part war movie, and part social commentary, Shadow in the Cloud doesn't always blend its ingredients evenly—but it's frequently pulpy fun." According to Metacritic, which assigned the film a weighted average score of 66 out of 100 based on 19 critics, it received "generally favorable reviews".

“Nick Allen of RogerEbert.com wrote that the film was "a sincere but silly mash-up of WWII dogfights, gremlin chaos, and feminism in action," and gave it 2.5 out of 4 stars.”

“Frequently pulpy fun.” Yep, it’s that.

<Double checks fit of flame suit.>

_________________
FTFA RTFM


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2021, 11:44 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/01/12
Posts: 248
Post Likes: +63
Aircraft: A36
My Dad was a B17 pilot and during his training he had to fire the guns from each position. He had to really squeeze down the tube for the tail gunner position, but he said the belly turrets was really hard to enter. I do not know if he ever could get in , certainly not with a chute pack . Regards, Edward


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2021, 12:47 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 05/30/17
Posts: 198
Post Likes: +159
And kudos to your father for his service ...


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2021, 12:50 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/01/12
Posts: 248
Post Likes: +63
Aircraft: A36
Thank you . Edward


Top

 Post subject: Re: Sperry Ball Turrets
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2021, 15:46 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/01/14
Posts: 8705
Post Likes: +13324
Location: Операционный офис КГБ
Aircraft: TU-104
Username Protected wrote:
My Dad was a B17 pilot and during his training he had to fire the guns from each position. He had to really squeeze down the tube for the tail gunner position, but he said the belly turrets was really hard to enter. I do not know if he ever could get in , certainly not with a chute pack . Regards, Edward


That’s a really odd requirement. I could see some value to cross training crew members to be backups to other positions, but wouldn’t it be best to keep the pilot in the pilots seat no matter what?

I am thinking, if I am a waist gunner and I see the pilot and copilot abandon their posts to go man the tail gun and ball, I am getting pretty darn nervous!

_________________
Be kinder than I am. It’s a low bar.
Flight suits = superior knowledge


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.midwest2.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.