18 Apr 2024, 21:47 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn  Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 18:59 |
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Joined: 07/21/08
Posts: 5456
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Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: Fun to watch, skilled pilot but IMHO this shows a complete lack of judgement. There is NO margin for error. Way too close to trees on approach. Just no margin for error. I wouldn't fly with this guy. Then you most assuredly wouldn’t fly with me, or almost anyone else that do off airport operations
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 28 Feb 2021, 20:02 |
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Joined: 10/04/19
Posts: 653
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Company: Capella Partners
Location: Alpine Airpark, 46U
Aircraft: P35, TW Pacer
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Username Protected wrote: Fun to watch, skilled pilot but IMHO this shows a complete lack of judgement. There is NO margin for error. Way too close to trees on approach. Just no margin for error. I wouldn't fly with this guy. Hell of a first post. Absolutely nothing about that approach or landing were even in the neighborhood of marginal. - breaker breaker - Eduardo, how do you protect the delicate pa-46 nose wheel mech in operations like that? I imagine you'd want a bit more sustained elevator back pressure and time on the main gear than the landing in the video, ideally? Or is the nosegear less of a problem than we have been led to believe? -J
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 00:09 |
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Joined: 02/27/08
Posts: 3175
Post Likes: +1261
Location: Galveston, TX
Aircraft: Malibu PA46-310P
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Username Protected wrote: Fun to watch, skilled pilot but IMHO this shows a complete lack of judgement. There is NO margin for error. Way too close to trees on approach. Just no margin for error. I wouldn't fly with this guy. Then you most assuredly wouldn’t fly with me, or almost anyone else that do off airport operations
Agreed. The back country videos I see posted make the jet prop landing look lame.
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 00:50 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: The back country videos I see posted make the jet prop landing look lame. If you can land on a runway, then you can precisely miss that tree on approach. Camera angles often don't tell the whole story, either, it may have not actually been very close. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 06:13 |
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Joined: 01/11/11
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Company: FUSION
Aircraft: B300ER B200 C90 DHC6
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Username Protected wrote: complete lack of judgement. There is NO margin for error. Way too close to trees on approach. Just no margin for error. I wouldn't fly with this guy. Don, what you say in your very first post on BT is just nonsense, IMO  If you are a pilot and find this so marginal, not sure who would want to fly with you! Then, according to your post, no one [and no airlines] should be operating in-&-out of KASE, TFFJ, LFLJ and many other airports.
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 09:46 |
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Joined: 03/23/08
Posts: 6944
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Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx.
Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
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Username Protected wrote: Fun to watch, skilled pilot but IMHO this shows a complete lack of judgement. There is NO margin for error. Way too close to trees on approach. Just no margin for error. I wouldn't fly with this guy. Hell of a first post. Absolutely nothing about that approach or landing were even in the neighborhood of marginal. - breaker breaker - Eduardo, how do you protect the delicate pa-46 nose wheel mech in operations like that? I imagine you'd want a bit more sustained elevator back pressure and time on the main gear than the landing in the video, ideally? Or is the nosegear less of a problem than we have been led to believe? -J
We’ve processed more FOD claims on PA46 turbines than any other model.
King Air is #2 but we insure a whole lot more of them.
Delicate axial blades.
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 10:30 |
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Joined: 01/12/14
Posts: 35
Post Likes: +28
Location: Thailand
Aircraft: PA46-350P Jetprop
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Username Protected wrote: Fun to watch, skilled pilot but IMHO this shows a complete lack of judgement. There is NO margin for error. Way too close to trees on approach. Just no margin for error. I wouldn't fly with this guy. Hell of a first post. Absolutely nothing about that approach or landing were even in the neighborhood of marginal. - breaker breaker - Eduardo, how do you protect the delicate pa-46 nose wheel mech in operations like that? I imagine you'd want a bit more sustained elevator back pressure and time on the main gear than the landing in the video, ideally? Or is the nosegear less of a problem than we have been led to believe? -J
For such a short runway you need to bank on reverse immediately which is an all wheel down necessity. So my SOP is to plant the aircraft on.
For normal runways I will hold off the nosewheel for longer and rarely use reverse under those circumstances.
Historically IMHO the weakness with the piston nosewheel was the original production engine mount that was prone to structural failures at critical weld points.
Rocket replaces the engine mount with a beefier version as part of the Jetprop conversion.
Piper had several goes at addressing this over the years and l believe now is less of a cause.
I also understand there have been a few after market engine mounts for the piston version to address the same issue.
I don't think the cause of the current M600 nosewheel collapse / runway excursions is the same problem if indeed it is discovered to be a mechanical problem.
I keep the nosewheel strut inflated higher than normal for prop clearance which helps.
I have been operating at least a dozen times a year out of that strip for the best part of seven years and apart from accelerated wear on the leading edges of the prop not suffered any other adverse effects, so continue to be comfortable using it within my own limitations.
Cheers. E
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 11:21 |
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Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 19903
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Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
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Username Protected wrote: The back country videos I see posted make the jet prop landing look lame. If you can land on a runway, then you can precisely miss that tree on approach. Camera angles often don't tell the whole story, either, it may have not actually been very close.
I went back and stepped through it at quarter speed and high resolution. To be fair, it is pretty close. I'm guessing maybe ten to twenty feet vertically and offset horizontally, but part of the wing appears to be over the tree.
Attachment: image_2021-03-01_101528.png
That said, winds were light, the tree was known and easily avoided. I have no problem with the approach. As has been mentioned, there are a lot more "exciting" approaches in a lot of places. I find the comment about "no margin" interesting. What are we trying to mitigate? Windshear? Nope. Gusts? Nope. Engine failure? Turn a little or use any energy reserve to clear. Pilot error? If you are at risk of flying into that tree, you shouldn't go there.
I guess Don has never been to St. Bart.
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 01 Mar 2021, 18:14 |
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Joined: 04/20/15
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Location: KFAT
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Username Protected wrote: We’ve processed more FOD claims on PA46 turbines than any other model.
King Air is #2 but we insure a whole lot more of them.
Delicate axial blades. Interesting. I wonder how that'd be the case with Meridians with a full time particle separator. Ingesting FOD through the outlet at low speeds?
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 02 Mar 2021, 09:59 |
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Joined: 03/23/08
Posts: 6944
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Company: AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx.
Location: KDVT, 46U
Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
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Username Protected wrote: We’ve processed more FOD claims on PA46 turbines than any other model.
King Air is #2 but we insure a whole lot more of them.
Delicate axial blades. Interesting. I wonder how that'd be the case with Meridians with a full time particle separator. Ingesting FOD through the outlet at low speeds?
No clue. But either something in the cowling design or general proximity to earth seems to make them susceptible in my experience.
Maybe we just had bad luck, 
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Tj.Johnson@AssuredPartners.com
C: 602-628-2701
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 04 Mar 2021, 12:44 |
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Joined: 06/01/16
Posts: 453
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Location: Citrus County Florida
Aircraft: Shopping
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Username Protected wrote: Fun to watch, skilled pilot but IMHO this shows a complete lack of judgement. There is NO margin for error. Way too close to trees on approach. Just no margin for error. I wouldn't fly with this guy. Really? I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, I wouldn't fly with you either. Stick to your 12,000 foot runways, and don't go anywhere near Aspen, way too dangerous, no margin for error there either.
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Post subject: Re: Jetprop Grass Strip Porn Posted: 04 Mar 2021, 16:04 |
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Joined: 08/16/15
Posts: 2895
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Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote:
-J
We’ve processed more FOD claims on PA46 turbines than any other model. King Air is #2 but we insure a whole lot more of them. Delicate axial blades.[/quote] Curious if you see in difference between the Jet-prop and Meridian/M600. The latter 2 having full time inertial separators, the JP is pilot selectable. Also keeping in mind there are about 2.5 times as many Meridian/M500/M600's as JP's, but I imagine your company experience controls for that.
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Piper M600
Ogden UT
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