Anyone know any more about this?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ntsb-probe ... sage_share

Interesting its only about the M600 which I believe is the most stable best ground handling of the PA-46 lineup.

The list of runway issues in the PA46 has to be massive over the life of the design. The fact that the M600 is the focus of this is odd. But maybe thats the only group of owners that decided to do something about it.

If they could not fix it in the M600 how could they fix it on the other models?

Bummer for Piper. This cant be good for Piper in any way. I just don't see a easy fix.

Mike

I wonder if this will turn out to be another Audi unintended acceleration case?

PA46's have been darting off the sides of runways for many years. I repaired a 1996 Mirage in 2004 after it made a hard left off the side of the runway after a normal approach and landing. We were never able to pinpoint the problem, although from the tire scrapes, and marks on the runway, it looked like the nose wheel was not straight upon touchdown.

That was one of the things that pushed me to a TBM instead of PA46T. The incidents are so numerous with the PA46 series.

I think pilots that don't have good crosswind landing skills suffer most, they are not forgiving of poor technique.

This topic is linked to the thread about selling a turbo prop to a 50 hour total time private pilot.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=192412&start=15

Looks like it can be bad business because any issue he has is going to be "a problem with the plane".

Huge thread on this on MMOPA. You must have the nose aligned with the runway when the NLG settles in a crosswind since the NLG is tied to the rudder. Shouldn’t this be the technique for all landings? Proper landing speed is also a factor. Taildragger experience and knowing the numbers seems to be common advice on MMOPA. I feel fortunate I have a good deal of taildragger time and have not had this issue in my P46T and have lots of good xwind experience. I’m sold this is piloting rather than design.

Then how do you explain it happening many many times more frequently with this design than other designs? Does the PA46 attract bad pilots at a much higher rate than other types?

Poor human factors engineering is just as much a design flaw as mechanical failure. I am not sure which is the cause here, but it sure seems like there are too many occurrences for there to be no problem.

Do you have data to prove this? Or is this your opinion?

Out of only 158 M600’s, there have been 6 incidents in 14 months. At that rate we should be seeing hundreds of Cessnas, Bo’s, PC-12’s, Cirri, etc. piling up next to runways all across the country.

Forgive me for not knowing the correct term here, but does the PA46 have more nosewheel direction change for a given (or initial) amount of rudder pedal travel? Maybe in other designs having a small amount of rudder in for x-winds would result in a momentary directional jiggle, while in the PA-46 the same amount of rudder left in would cause a wilder excursion. Poor technique, yes, but a more pronounced result. Does the size of the nosewheel play a role in this effect?

I have a Meridian and I will say that there is a very direct and solid linkage between the nose wheel position and the rudder compared to other small planes I have flown. This is noticeable on taxi and on take off, it is very sensitive. The first time you land a Meridian in an X-wind you will learn the importance of having the rudder pedals straight as the nose gear is allowed down to the ground, if the X-wind correction is still in when the nose gear makes contact the plane will turn. Once the pilot is used to the steering it is a total non factor, in fact other planes feel mushy to me now for ground ops.

Pretty certain the PA28 line and most Cessnas have a bungee connection to the nosewheel so this may we'll be a factor. Interesting.

I assume that turning is more sensitive to rudder input. And of course with higher speed comes larger turns. Also it has been reported on the MMOPA site that overall rudder travel is less than many other GA aircraft. Much different than a bungee type system say on a Cessna 182. I believe that rudder input should be a leg muscle memory function. Some pilots rest their heels on the floor and use their ankles. This only works for minimal inputs and complicates good response in a range of situations.

While possibly not entirely appropriate for the Meridian, this book has helped a lot with my 182 flying. Rudder technique is emphasized.

https://www.amazon.com/CONTACT-FLYING-R ... g=btalk-20

Best,

Tom

Out of only 158 M600’s, there have been 6 incidents in 14 months. At that rate we should be seeing hundreds of Cessnas, Bo’s, PC-12’s, Cirri, etc. piling up next to runways all across the country.