That’s exactly what they are looking into, darting of the plane that leads to excursions. You just contradicted yourself again, then turn this into me being in denial. Gaslight much?

The “fact” you refer to is not an issue that has been attributed to a design flaw as you continue to incorrectly espouse. Any out of rig LG or improperly inflated tires create more risk. You can insist it’s a fact, or insist there is a flaw as much as you like. It doesn’t make it a fact any more than me saying your plane is basically flawed over and over makes that factual. I am a member of MMOPA and I can assure you that is not the consensus there. So please stop with your labels of denials, conspiracy theories, liars, et al and recognize that you are not in sole possession of the facts or knowledge. These are your opinions, not facts, and others are free to disagree with your opinion.

Good for us the NTSB is going find out if it’s opinion or facts.

You may be right and I may be right. Let’s wait and see. LOL

Mike

Fly the d@mn thing all the way to the chocks! Don’t get complacent. Train like you are a professional!

Sorry for interrupting your boxing match, gents!

I’ve been flying an M600 for three years and about 450 hours. The rudder is interconnected to the nose wheel so when you’re sideslipping in a crosswind landing you need to straighten the nose wheel before touching it down. Pretty much common sense. I’ve had my plane try and dart a couple times when I got lazy landing in substantial crosswinds. No big deal if you can handle the rudder pedals. If you have a problem with this plane then you better stay out of tailwheel planes.

Where is all of this vitriol coming from Michael ?

Mike

perhaps Piper could do a bunch of testing with the M600 SLS system during significant cross winds and see if the computer makes any similar mistakes? it kinda sounds like there is a weakness with the nose wheel position during a crosswind landing but all planes have their issues.

it would be interesting to compare the automated landing results during a cross wind, a Piper test pilot doing the same, and a comparison of the entire M600 fleet nose veer off incidents. I pick on the M600 only because the FAA in their infinite wisdom has decided to look at this particular model instead of taking notes on Peter and his Raptor fiasco.

Eric

Mike,
You’re really reaching here. Do you have a financial interest in this issue? I don’t think there’s any issue with the ground handling of the M600. How many hours do you have in one?
Jack

My original point was that the M600 is the best ground handling of the PA46 lineup. At least that was one of the selling features. So I was surprised the investigation was for that model and not the other versions of the PA46.

I have no time in a M600 only Mirage.

I strongly believe there is a problem with the design of the PA-46 nose gear. I am not the only one. It was in fact the single biggest concern I found while researching the PA46 before I bought one. I was able to handle it fine but it was more challenging than any other aircraft I had flown on the ground.

I mention this and Greg gets defensive and says the PA46 does not have a problem. Then the banter started. I have zero interest in the outcome of this investigation. But offered my perspective and experience as a non biased former PA46 owner.

I just don’t back down from people getting defense. It seems Greg does not back down either. Which I respect. Haha I would probably really like Greg in person.

Really should have kept my mouth shut. You can’t say anything negative on the internet without people getting all butt hurt, even if what you say is true.

I will leave it alone. :-)

Mike

I had a 1988 Malibu and now a Jetprop. I wasn't aware of the "nose wheel weakness" at least from my experience. The plane requires that you be super sensitive to your pedals much like a taildragger and to check the tire pressures. I have about 600 hours in a Stearman so maybe that helps. I will say that my previous A36 was easier on the pedals when taking off and landing. That all said, I absolutely love the PA46 except for the larger hanger it requires!

I have a lot of tail wheel time and about 500 hrs. in the PA46. It is not fair to say the PA46
is like a taildragger, taildraggers want to turn around, the PA46 wants to go where it is told by the feet. The PA-46 has very positive response from the pedals to the nose gear
A person coming from most other light airplanes would certainly want to be trained and be cognoscente of this. If you drove a 1979 El Dorado for a few years and you borrowed your neighbor's 911 you would not want to move the steering wheel like you did in the Eldo as you tooled down the freeway.

I have about 300 hours in my M600. Early on, I would occasionally realize that my foot placement was off and I would be touching one of the brake pedals without realizing it ... that was an easy fix of course. And the rudder is large and is directly connected to the nose gear so it is also common to land with a little rudder which can cause movement on NLG touchdown. Easy enough to correct with rudder in my experience...

Proper technique mitigates all of this and like many other high performance aircraft, you need to know your airframe and the correct techniques. The PA46 is no different. I find it helps to make sure you aren’t carrying too much speed into the touchdown and keep the back pressure on to hold the NLG off as long as possible. This reduces the force on the NLG on touchdown and reduces the speed. if you land fast and let the NLG slam down, if the rudder isn’t centered you’re going to move in that direction pretty quickly. It can surprise you ... I’ve had many instructors complain that pilots tend to stop flying as soon as the mains are down. That’s a bad idea in any airplane, including the PA46.

I don’t think there is a design defect but over on MMOPA, the pilot who experienced one alleged a specific potential manufacturing defect in a very specific set of recent serial numbers. He was not alleging an overall defect in the PA46 generally. And who knows, he might be right! I do think the SBs have raised pilot consciousness on tire pressures and nose gear steering operation which is a positive. So we will see what the NTSB says if anything, ultimately.

It appears that another PA46 departed the runway. Why so many recently? This is not a new design. I just got checked out in a Meridian and, while it isn’t as stable as a Bonanza, I haven’t felt that a loss of control was imminent.

Too bad. These are really nice planes.
John

That one said issues with the brakes. If it is real, you can lose pressure in one of the brakes. If you lose differential braking, and hold both brakes down, you will turn. But with the PA46 you should still be able to come to a safe stop. You would need to counter the differential braking with nose wheel steering. That really does work.... DAMHIK

Wow, what sloppy reporting. A single engine “airport” was landing and had issues with its brakes? Must have been some sort of flying aircraft carrier! And “nobody was injured and all six passengers are uninjured.” Does that mean the passengers don’t count as part of “nobody”? Also, the fact that there were 6 passengers and no pilots onboard would help explain the accident.