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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 01:34 
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Dassault makes excellent aircraft. Here's an old YouTube clip of a guy taking a Falcon to almost Mach 1 with no buffeting, full roll control, no mach tuck, no vibration and even hands off. Impressive stuff.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/c7ojhYSSMKc[/youtube]

The DC-8 flew faster :duck:

But seriously, that's impressive the way he rolls the airplane at that speed.

IIRC, the 747 was dive tested to .99, and it is an exceptional airplane in so many ways, but something tells me that part of the test was flown wings level.


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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 04:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
Dassault makes excellent aircraft. Here's an old YouTube clip of a guy taking a Falcon to almost Mach 1 with no buffeting, full roll control, no mach tuck, no vibration and even hands off. Impressive stuff.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/c7ojhYSSMKc[/youtube]


To almost Mach 1? Watch the altimeter, they definitely go through...And it was not the first time either ;)

As to making excellent aircraft...Can't agree more! I've only flown their single jet engine plane, not too shabby I'd say. I wish I had managed to get a ride on a Falcon 200.

edit: maybe it was not in this video, I need to look up the one I'm talking about...

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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2021, 08:11 
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Too many engines; I’d forget to start one of em.


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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 09:52 
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2 mins...... :popcorn:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/D5pGlG0AXUM[/youtube]


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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 10:01 
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Username Protected wrote:
2 mins...... :popcorn:

So what is safer, the one hour of flight just before this inspection, or the one hour after?

There had to be at least 100,000 opportunities for someone to make a mistake in this process.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 11:30 
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2 mins...... :popcorn:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/D5pGlG0AXUM[/youtube]


I always said Lears looked fast, standing still..


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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 13:22 
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So what is safer, the one hour of flight just before this inspection, or the one hour after?

There had to be at least 100,000 opportunities for someone to make a mistake in this process.

Mike C.

On the 35, the 12 year requires the removal of the wing leading edges. Anytime the leading edge is disturbed it requires a stall flight by a Lear test pilot before return to service. That takes the majority of the first hour after the inspection. We sent one on a test flight earlier this month and it returned with zero mechanical discrepancies and only 3 or 4 minor avionics squawks.


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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 14:01 
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Anytime the leading edge is disturbed it requires a stall flight by a Lear test pilot before return to service.

Thus the procedure confirms the heightened risk of coming out of inspection.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 14:20 
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The 12,000 hour requires the removal of the wing, but no stall flight. Does that mean there is no heightened risk if the leading edge didn’t come off? I wouldn’t judge the risk based on Lear’s procedures any more than I’d judge the temperature of a swimming pool by looking at the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 14:29 
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Does that mean there is no heightened risk if the leading edge didn’t come off?

Would you send your grandmother on a trip on the very first flight after this maintenance, into a night, low IMC, icing trip over the rocky mountains, with no test flight prior?

If you say yes, you don't like your grandmother very much.

If you say no, then you recognize the risk is elevated after so much maintenance has been done and the plane needs a test flight.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2021, 21:35 
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I flew with a “certified Learjet stall pilot” once. We hit a goose on approach into Little Rock. The service rep gave us limited speed, altitude, and time to get it fixed. The damage looked like a golf ball contacted the upper surface on the leading edge. That section had to be removed and went to the “Dent Doctor” who was a sheet metal guy in a high end auto shop that hand formed the aluminum. It came out really nice.
My understanding is that if two screws are removed from a leading edge in succession it has to be flown by the stall guy.
My flight was right after the “new” Denver airport opened. We stayed with the airplane and the pilot came out and asked for an hour with the airplane to get acclimated with the switches. (He saw no humor in our handicapped tag hanging from the compass)
The test checked the speeds of the overspeed horn, the stick shaker, and how it reacted in a full stall. The guy was adamant about being the PIC plus he had a case full of Jepp binders. I pulled the checklist but ended up starting and getting everything online for this flight. ATC cleared us to remain within 15 miles of some VOR that didn’t have DME. Needless to say I’m carrying this guy who didn’t have a clue how to operate a UNS 1B and once in the air I switched everything over to GPS to give us distance information (he was lost). Once we got situated in our area, I took numbers down while he flew. We blew the horn then proceeded to slow down for the stalls in various configurations. He had a wing drop one way then the other as he wasn’t keeping the ailerons neutral. I asked if that was acceptable and he said no. I asked him to let me give it a try and I got the airplane to just mush level while loosing altitude and would power out of it. He took the numbers from then on and I did the remainder of the flying including an ILS back to the airport.
We found out that the guy was a delivery pilot that was given the certificate and was now a contract pilot looking for work.
It was a great time for me to fly a jet like that and it also makes for a good story.


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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 01 Mar 2021, 12:07 
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Breaks my heart what they did to Learjet.

The guy I flew with could single pilot a Lear all day long, and he made sure you knew it too. You were in that airplane for no other reason than the law required it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 04 Mar 2021, 22:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
Dassault makes excellent aircraft. Here's an old YouTube clip of a guy taking a Falcon to almost Mach 1 with no buffeting, full roll control, no mach tuck, no vibration and even hands off. Impressive stuff.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/c7ojhYSSMKc[/youtube]

The DC-8 flew faster :duck:

But seriously, that's impressive the way he rolls the airplane at that speed.

IIRC, the 747 was dive tested to .99, and it is an exceptional airplane in so many ways, but something tells me that part of the test was flown wings level.


I always thought the Falcon 50's looked nice....as I passed them up in the 747 doing .92 Mach as they slid under my wing doing .86. :D

They were used to it, as I used to pass them up doing .90 Mach in the old 727's. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2021, 01:04 
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This 74 was heavy coming out of Newark trying to pick up a head of steam.


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 Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2021, 09:43 
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Taking the 31a to Rockford today for a visit with Mark Clark.
Details on that to follow...

The 31 definitely buzzes at high IAS in knots is when I notice it.
Fantastic handling plane.
I believe the 12Yr can be accomplished without removing the LE and certainly without removing the wing!

All that said, they are and have been dinosaurs in the market for some time. This “change” is not really a thing.

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