20 Apr 2024, 00:55 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected |
Message |
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 15 Feb 2021, 23:08 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 09/11/09 Posts: 5291 Post Likes: +4201 Company: Looking Location: Tulsa, Ok
Aircraft: Baron/Bonanza
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Hard to beat a lightly loaded 20 series standing on its tail in the climb. Might have been in one while doing that once or twice. Only thing missing was Penny Benjamin. The admiral's daughter??
Hubba hubba, you know it!
_________________ I don't have a problem with anger, I have a problem with idiots.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 16 Feb 2021, 14:30 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/28/17 Posts: 6683 Post Likes: +8022 Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Hard to beat a lightly loaded 20 series standing on its tail in the climb. Might have been in one while doing that once or twice. Only thing missing was Penny Benjamin. In December of 1965 a Lear 23 set a time to climb record of 7 minutes and 21 seconds to 40,000 feet....with two pilots and 5 passengers onboard. The Lear was the first civilian jet to be certified for flight at 51,000 feet in 1977. The Lear has been spelled two ways, Lear Jet and Learjet; it was Lear Jet until Bill Lear merged the company with Gates Aviation Corporation in 1969 and it became the Gates Learjet, and later in 1990 it became the Bombardier Learjet. The Learjet type rating designation is LR-Jet from the 23 through the 35 then the model number, LR-45, LR-60, etc. There's a world of difference between the 23 and 35. Edit: The Lear Jet in the picture is the second prototype of the Lear 23. The airframe was damaged by severe vibration during a test flight of an experimental control system and was retired to the National Air and Space Museum in 1977 after being restored by Gates Learjet. Some of the early Lears were not approved for flight in icing conditions. They can be recognized by having no white radome alcohol nipple on the nose to keep ice from shedding into the engines; they also didn't have the electrically heated horizontal stab leading edges, but had hot wing leading edges by bleed air and hot electric engine nacelles. The 24B I flew was a non-icing Lear, but was never a problem, as pushing the throttles up to high speed the ram rise kept the ice off, but in the event of ice, landing configuration was flaps 20, ref plus 20 for ice on the tail.
Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 13:19 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/28/17 Posts: 6683 Post Likes: +8022 Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Hmmm. Buy for $150,000. Fly for 500 hours then sell to a seedy character south of the border for $50,000. Capital outlay of $200/hour. Not a jet guy but that sounds cheap to me. Well, if maintenance and fuel were free. And a copilot. Also, TBO is not death. Part 91 can HSI and keep flying without an OH. I see another 24D for $90K as well. Buy both, make one usable airplane from it with lots of spares. Mike C.
I know a couple of guys widely known who flew their Lear 20 Series single pilot all the time. One of them got caught more than once and wouldn't quit, so I think the FAA just gave up on him.
I think the Lear could have got single-pilot certification but it got off to a bad start with a poor accident record and I think the FAA was pretty dug into their position on it.
The Citation didn't get single-pilot certification until it had been in production for 6 years in 1977 as the 501SP. Having flown one for a while, they are much more docile than a 20 series Lear and I think less demanding than a piston twin, but not so of the 20 Series Lears.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 13:59 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/01/08 Posts: 2630 Post Likes: +648
|
|
1994 Learjet company video.
Excellent inflight footage.
[youtube]http://youtu.be/umAszPwn8WM[/youtube]
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 14:20 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 09/09/14 Posts: 782 Post Likes: +1752 Location: Grove Airport, Camas WA
Aircraft: Cub, Stearman
|
|
Sad news for sure.
The Lear was my very first jet and ten months later, my first jet command. And although I've probably got over 100 hours in Simuflite's Lear 35 level D sim, my type ride was actually in the airplane, the only time that ever occurred. There were two of us upgrading that day, I got to go first, then ride through my buddy's evaluation. He almost killed us when he started pulling back the power on the good engine right after we got airborne during his V1 cut. The Check Airman saved our life - fortunately, the Learjet had an excess of thrust. I was facing rearward in a jumpseat and thankfully never got to see how close we came to dying.
My friend passed his rating ride when he retested a few days later. That's the problem with conducting training in the airplane. No margin for error.
I flew the 24, 25, 31, 35 and 55. Ridiculous that the FAA allowed that all under one type rating without much more vigorous differences training.
With the crappy autopilots and no auto-throttle, I was easily the best instrument pilot of my life during the six years I flew them. The 31 was the nicest, most refined one of the lot, probably the only one that could have been flown safely single pilot.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 17:12 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 06/06/12 Posts: 2290 Post Likes: +2114 Company: FlightRepublic Location: Bee Cave, TX
Aircraft: DA40, C182
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I wonder if someone could STC it as SP with a newer panel? Sounds like your next project, Adam! Sign me up.
_________________ Antoni Deighton contactlink.to/antoni.deighton
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 18 Feb 2021, 17:20 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6357 Post Likes: +5540 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I wonder if someone could STC it as SP with a newer panel? Sounds like your next project, Adam! Sign me up.
Yeah, lemme just find those $10 mill I had stashed away in my king size mattress!
Actually, if something like that should be attempted, I would say the IAI Westwind is prob a better candidate: It's got very few calendar items, mainly time items, which is good for owner/operators. It's got TFE731's (cheap and plentiful). It's got great range. Built tough and simple with benign flying characteristics.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 06:06 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/31/12 Posts: 3094 Post Likes: +5447 Company: French major Location: France
Aircraft: Ejet
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Yeah, lemme just find those $10 mill I had stashed away in my king size mattress! Actually, if something like that should be attempted, I would say the IAI Westwind is prob a better candidate: It's got very few calendar items, mainly time items, which is good for owner/operators. It's got TFE731's (cheap and plentiful). It's got great range. Built tough and simple with benign flying characteristics. Much cheaper would be to get one of the Mystère 10, and a french licence. Off you go, single pilot! The absolute best looking jet. What, am I biased?
_________________ Singham!
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 21:23 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/08/15 Posts: 254 Post Likes: +168 Location: Prescott, AZ
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I like the idea of Lears….I don't think they make very good flight inspection airplanes (exactly the opposite of what our mission is IMO - though I chose not to fly them). The L60s that my organization have been flying for my 10 years here are rod hard and put away.... Maintenance queens. Worst FMC rates in the fleet by far. Practically can't give our away with all the mods and the holes drilled in the fuselage. Hopefully this might even hasten their departure even quicker!
BUT - for what IMO Lears are suppose to do - - what a nice looking airplane. I’ve been flying Lears for over 30 years and the 60 for 20. The key to dispatch reliability with complex airplanes is crews and maintenance personnel that know how to fly and maintain the aircraft. We have missed 3 trips in 20 years in our 60 and I experienced similar reliability with the others that I have flown.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 19 Feb 2021, 22:19 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/21/14 Posts: 5151 Post Likes: +3689 Company: FAA Flight Check Location: Oklahoma City, OK (KOKC)
Aircraft: King Air 300F/C90GTx
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I like the idea of Lears….I don't think they make very good flight inspection airplanes (exactly the opposite of what our mission is IMO - though I chose not to fly them). The L60s that my organization have been flying for my 10 years here are rod hard and put away.... Maintenance queens. Worst FMC rates in the fleet by far. Practically can't give our away with all the mods and the holes drilled in the fuselage. Hopefully this might even hasten their departure even quicker!
BUT - for what IMO Lears are suppose to do - - what a nice looking airplane. I’ve been flying Lears for over 30 years and the 60 for 20. The key to dispatch reliability with complex airplanes is crews and maintenance personnel that know how to fly and maintain the aircraft. We have missed 3 trips in 20 years in our 60 and I experienced similar reliability with the others that I have flown. I seriously doubt our flight profiles are the same as yours. I'd venture to guess that yours are much closer to how I believe Lears should be flown.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 20 Feb 2021, 01:08 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6357 Post Likes: +5540 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
|
|
Username Protected wrote:
Much cheaper would be to get one of the Mystère 10, and a french licence. Off you go, single pilot! The absolute best looking jet. What, am I biased?
Love it! But I heard they don't issue SP licenses for that anymore, right? It was just a few years in the 90's, if I recall correctly.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: Bombardier ending Learjet production Posted: 20 Feb 2021, 06:22 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/31/12 Posts: 3094 Post Likes: +5447 Company: French major Location: France
Aircraft: Ejet
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Love it! But I heard they don't issue SP licenses for that anymore, right? It was just a few years in the 90's, if I recall correctly. EASA does not. But there is still a bit of grey area if you have retained your old French licence. Overall, to be honest, it would be difficult to do it for two reasons: -if you cross the border and get a SAFA check, they expect to see an EASA licence -I fear very few places could still train you for your LPC. And if it were my plane, I could get in trouble for what I would do with it. I've seen it being used by the Navy for some rather...intense... flight manoeuvrers. Fun to see what it can do against a SEM. The Mystère is really a small jetfighter. An old gen one, but still...
_________________ Singham!
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024
|
|
|
|