18 Apr 2024, 22:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 01:50 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Piper Cheyenne 400 LS Won't go 400 knots. Expensive big block TPE331 engines. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 04:02 |
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Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2530 Post Likes: +1254
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Username Protected wrote: Avanti, but the BT crowd has already cornered that market.
500 miles, lots of folks, and 1200to 1500 payload.......
Most here would say I would say PC12........but no
Caravan mon, Caravan. Why no on the PC-12?
_________________ Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Administrate, Litigate.
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 12:02 |
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Joined: 01/04/12 Posts: 279 Post Likes: +99
Aircraft: C560, Extra NG, FX3
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Username Protected wrote: Hi,
I am still dreaming of going 400+ knots but haven’t found a plane yet... Piper Cheyenne 400 LS
According to the below owner in twinandturbine max speed is 351 knots in the 20’s, and cruise speed is around 340 knots. With full fuel payload is around 200 lbs.... The 441 can leave 2 hours of fuel behind and take 8 people 1500 NM, or about the same distance as a new KA-200 can bring 175 lbs.... I looked at a 400 and found the interior to be cramped. Love the performance though. BTW, the Extra NG (mentioned in the article) is now all carbon fiber and has an IO 580, 310 HP for 1400 lbs :-) https://youtu.be/l4eAXbEtROg
http://twinandturbine.com/article/piper ... t-of-time/
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 12:30 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11105 Post Likes: +7090 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: Avanti, but the BT crowd has already cornered that market.
500 miles, lots of folks, and 1200to 1500 payload.......
Most here would say I would say PC12........but no
Caravan mon, Caravan. Why no on the PC-12?
Trying to stay neutral.
This has PC12 all over it.
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 13:22 |
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Joined: 11/06/13 Posts: 404 Post Likes: +247 Location: KFTW-Fort Worth Meacham
Aircraft: C208B, AL18-115
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Caravan would be about 3 hours for 500 miles and you could leave leave 600 or so pounds of fuel behind, that would you about 1400-1800 (maybe more) pounds of useful load.
Comfortable, but slow. Great baggage in pod. Pilatus beats it in every category but cubic feet and acquisition price.
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 14:19 |
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Joined: 09/05/09 Posts: 4103 Post Likes: +2745 Location: Small Town, NC
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Username Protected wrote: Caravan would be about 3 hours for 500 miles and you could leave leave 600 or so pounds of fuel behind, that would you about 1400-1800 (maybe more) pounds of useful load.
Comfortable, but slow. Great baggage in pod. Pilatus beats it in every category but cubic feet and acquisition price. and pressurization. and safety. and resale value.
_________________ "Find worthy causes in your life."
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 18:09 |
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Joined: 02/09/09 Posts: 5587 Post Likes: +2546 Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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Username Protected wrote: With full fuel payload is around 200 lbs.... Anyone considering a turbine airplane should get the idea of fuel fuel payload out of their mind. There are some Metroliners that are over MGTOW with full fuel and no crew. There are many turbine aircraft that are near MGTOW with full fuel, but still have a huge range with reduced fuel (i.e., the C-441, SA226/SA227, etc.). Unless you have a good reason to tanker fuel, then all the extra weight does is increase fuel burn.
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 19:44 |
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Joined: 08/14/13 Posts: 6072 Post Likes: +4650
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Username Protected wrote: With full fuel payload is around 200 lbs.... Anyone considering a turbine airplane should get the idea of fuel fuel payload out of their mind. There are some Metroliners that are over MGTOW with full fuel and no crew. There are many turbine aircraft that are near MGTOW with full fuel, but still have a huge range with reduced fuel (i.e., the C-441, SA226/SA227, etc.). Unless you have a good reason to tanker fuel, then all the extra weight does is increase fuel burn.
And as a datapoint, my C90B has a 1200lb useful load when the tanks are slap full with 2600lbs of fuel
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 19:46 |
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Joined: 11/30/12 Posts: 4006 Post Likes: +4411 Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
Aircraft: B200, 500B
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Username Protected wrote: With full fuel payload is around 200 lbs.... Anyone considering a turbine airplane should get the idea of fuel fuel payload out of their mind. There are some Metroliners that are over MGTOW with full fuel and no crew. There are many turbine aircraft that are near MGTOW with full fuel, but still have a huge range with reduced fuel (i.e., the C-441, SA226/SA227, etc.). Unless you have a good reason to tanker fuel, then all the extra weight does is increase fuel burn. Not always. Any quote for max range is always going to be full fuel, so it's worth knowing how you can get max range. And it's not always about max range - sometimes it's max safety. I may fly Juneau to Scottsdale in the summer and be comfortable landing with less than an hour in the tanks, but if I'm going Scottsdale to New Haven in the winter I'm going to want all the reserves I can take.
_________________ Be Nice
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 20:43 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 6310 Post Likes: +3803 Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: Anyone considering a turbine airplane should get the idea of fuel fuel payload out of their mind. I tend to agree. But really, for any airplane, if full fuel payload is more than a pilot and maybe one other, then to my mind it means the designer should've utilized the empty space better to have bigger fuel tanks...
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 05 Mar 2021, 20:57 |
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Joined: 07/21/08 Posts: 5456 Post Likes: +6171 Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: Anyone considering a turbine airplane should get the idea of fuel fuel payload out of their mind. I tend to agree. But really, for any airplane, if full fuel payload is more than a pilot and maybe one other, then to my mind it means the designer should've utilized the empty space better to have bigger fuel tanks... Thats easy to say for MU2 guy. Ya'll can circle the globe on a tank of gas....
_________________ I'm just here for the free snacks
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Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 06 Mar 2021, 12:01 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 6310 Post Likes: +3803 Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: Thats easy to say for MU2 guy. Ya'll can circle the globe on a tank of gas.... The range on the MU2 is pretty good, but not truly stellar. I figure about 1200nm, maybe a touch more, given no RVSM. Using the original ceiling of 31000 would get another couple hundred NM probably, but not allowed these days.
_________________ -Jon C.
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