24 Apr 2024, 07:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected |
Message |
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 06 Mar 2021, 18:09 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 6318 Post Likes: +3809 Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Come on Jon, 1200? I flew 1350 all the time in my Solitaire, though only VFR at the end kind of days.
Guy I sold it too had done some crazy long range flights. He has made Denver to Boston a few times with not much wind push. Well... ok, I guess when I’m guesstimating I am conservative, but with good weather at end point I’ve had some pretty long ones. KBED-KGRI-KSQL against decent headwinds, KTUL-KSQL with very light winds. KORL-KLBB-KSQL several times against headwinds. You’re right, perhaps a little better than 1200. Biggest thing is my experience is usually going all the way coast to coast, so 1200nm is typically enough to be halfway so no point in getting to 1350 because it doesn’t save me a stop.
_________________ -Jon C.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 06 Mar 2021, 22:14 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 04/24/18 Posts: 727 Post Likes: +340 Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Caravan would be about 3 hours for 500 miles and you could leave leave 600 or so pounds of fuel behind, that would you about 1400-1800 (maybe more) pounds of useful load.
Comfortable, but slow. Great baggage in pod. Pilatus beats it in every category but cubic feet and acquisition price. and pressurization. and safety. and resale value.
Methinks you read that wackbards...
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 08:19 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2537 Post Likes: +1262
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Caravan would be about 3 hours for 500 miles and you could leave leave 600 or so pounds of fuel behind, that would you about 1400-1800 (maybe more) pounds of useful load.
Comfortable, but slow. Great baggage in pod. Pilatus beats it in every category but cubic feet and acquisition price. and pressurization. and safety. and resale value. Pressurization, of course. But I don't see the Caravan as being more unsafe than the Pilatus and the resale value is as good if not better. People are always looking for Caravans due to their versatility.
_________________ Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Administrate, Litigate.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 09:32 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2537 Post Likes: +1262
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Sounds like a Citation II mission to me. Acquisition cost of sub $500k, high dispatch reliability, ability to top weather, and acceptable speed of 350ktas ( a 500 mile trip is sub 2 hours, so even a 400 knot plane doesn't move the needle much). Is the dispatch reliability really that high? Seems like there is more to go wrong with a pressurized twin jet.
_________________ Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Administrate, Litigate.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 10:26 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 19252 Post Likes: +23622 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Is the dispatch reliability really that high? Seems like there is more to go wrong with a pressurized twin jet. There really isn't that much to go wrong when you start comparing the nature and quantity of parts involved. Piston engines are terribly complex when you realize everything that has to go exactly right for them to work. It isn't just the engine that is hugely more reliable, it is that everything else on the airplane is built to a higher standard and isn't being shaken to death by piston vibrations. I can say my pressurize twin turboprop has been remarkably reliable. Absolutely the most reliable airplane I have ever owned. I am about to find out how my Citation does in the coming years. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 11:21 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/15/21 Posts: 2537 Post Likes: +1262
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Is the dispatch reliability really that high? Seems like there is more to go wrong with a pressurized twin jet. There really isn't that much to go wrong when you start comparing the nature and quantity of parts involved. Piston engines are terribly complex when you realize everything that has to go exactly right for them to work. It isn't just the engine that is hugely more reliable, it is that everything else on the airplane is built to a higher standard and isn't being shaken to death by piston vibrations. I can say my pressurize twin turboprop has been remarkably reliable. Absolutely the most reliable airplane I have ever owned. I am about to find out how my Citation does in the coming years. Mike C. Mike, I do wish you well with that and will be interested to see how it works out.
Lots of inspections required with jets. Am I reading this right, a Phase 6 exterior airframe check every two weeks? And this has to be done by an A&P? What are they looking for, bullet holes? https://skyway-mro.com/citation-550-551-inspections/
I wonder if they really can catch everything (or almost everything) with these inspections. It seems like if you are dealing with 40 year old metal that (epecially in an engine) has been subject to various cycles and stresses, it's just simply not going to be as reliable as new equipment. Thinking about that 501 that blew up an engine on takeoff a couple months ago...
_________________ Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, Administrate, Litigate.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 10 Mar 2021, 20:32 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 09/05/09 Posts: 4109 Post Likes: +2751 Location: Small Town, NC
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The 441 is FAST! This was my TAS yesterday flying to VT from FL. What was the fuel flow? At what weight?
_________________ "Find worthy causes in your life."
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 10 Mar 2021, 21:22 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11105 Post Likes: +7090 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The 441 is FAST! This was my TAS yesterday flying to VT from FL. What was the fuel flow? At what weight?
Fuel flow no where near as low as a PC12
Weight, no where near as high as a PC12
My buddy Bill as a conquest and a cj3, prefers the conquest...........
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 10 Mar 2021, 23:34 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 04/22/10 Posts: 1200 Post Likes: +2088 Location: Port Vila and sometimes Brisbane
Aircraft: A36 Bonanza
|
|
Many years ago now I did several hundred hours in a C441 between jet gigs - truly impressive aeroplane. Quote: BTW, the Extra NG (mentioned in the article) is now all carbon fiber and has an IO 580, 310 HP for 1400 lbs :-) Anyone else like a separate thread telling us all about the ExtraNG? Max?
_________________ Chuck Perry A36 VH-EZU B737-800NG Redcliffe QLd, Australia
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 07:08 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 09/05/09 Posts: 4109 Post Likes: +2751 Location: Small Town, NC
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Fuel flow no where near as low as a PC12
Weight, no where near as high as a PC12
My buddy Bill as a conquest and a cj3, prefers the conquest........... yeah, but it's 40kts faster! really torn here.
_________________ "Find worthy causes in your life."
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 07:52 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 09/02/08 Posts: 365 Post Likes: +251
Aircraft: B58
|
|
If you showed up with a 400 series Cessna for a flight, I would rather go commercial. Wife used to work for Cessna. My favorite comment when I was researching these was from a Sr. Cessna engineer "we never expected the 400 series to be flying this long..."
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: 500 mile people hauler 421C vs 425 vs 441 Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 09:36 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 07/24/14 Posts: 1761 Post Likes: +2220
|
|
Username Protected wrote: If you showed up with a 400 series Cessna for a flight, I would rather go commercial. Wife used to work for Cessna. My favorite comment when I was researching these was from a Sr. Cessna engineer "we never expected the 400 series to be flying this long..." I venture to guess that if you asked a Cessna engineer who worked at the company in the 60s and 70s, they would likely tell you they didn't think ANY of their models would still be flying 50 and 60 years later. I'll take the 400 series Cessna. You can fly on the cramped, disease laden aluminum tube.
_________________ Jay
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024
|
|
|
|