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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2022, 10:19 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
We had a similar situation, but luckily the previous owner knew they wanted to retain their N number so they started the process when they ordered their CJ4, so basically Textron built an airplane in the time it took the FAA to do the paperwork on an N number change. My client bought the airplane 6 1/2 months ago and we requested an N number change, done through the title company to decrease the chance of mistakes, and just yesterday Kim emailed the -64 form to us!

My only advice is to use an escrow agent for all of these forms, just like Mike said the slightest of mistakes carry a six month penalty! The escrow agents do it daily and know what to avoid.

I am proud of the FAA, to reward themselves for working so hard they now take a half day off prior to every federal holiday!

Now that’s bold.

I’m in California with an airplane we hope to slip under a Christmas tree in Louisiana, trying to close on Friday is bad enough, now we have to do it by noon Central time.

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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2022, 20:36 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
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Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
My only advice is to use an escrow agent for all of these forms, just like Mike said the slightest of mistakes carry a six month penalty! The escrow agents do it daily and know what to avoid.

We used an escrow agent.

So your advice isn't the protection you think it is.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 21 Dec 2022, 23:30 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
My only advice is to use an escrow agent for all of these forms, just like Mike said the slightest of mistakes carry a six month penalty! The escrow agents do it daily and know what to avoid.

We used an escrow agent.

So your advice isn't the protection you think it is.

Mike C.


25 years in the biz, never had one of my escrow agents screw up on an FAA form, guess you are unlucky.
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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2023, 22:13 
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Joined: 05/08/13
Posts: 437
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Company: Citation Jet Exchange
Location: St. Louis
Aircraft: 58P C510 C525 Excel
I did a 2.8 hour leg today at FL450 returning from a family trip out west in the CJ2+ and saw these incredible numbers. I filed FL430 but with the convective activity topping FL450 for nearly the total 1000NM trip I climbed up there after a little level off at FL430. ISA temps were hot today, but at mid weights the 2+ did great.

401 knots TAS at 640PPH = 95 gallons per hour! I can occasionally get our CJ down that low at FL410 but I'm at 340TAS. On our King Air E90 if I ran it hard I'd be at that fuel flow at 250TAS. This came out to 4.85 statue miles per gallon at 461MPH, just amazing. The CJ2+ accelerated to as high as 412TAS at FL450 when we burned off a little weight and temps came down, fuel flown went up to just 660-670PPH.

At the same time of taking these pictures ATC called out a weather balloon at 51,700 feet and I passed right underneath it. The cell phone picture of course doesn't do justice.

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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 03 Jun 2023, 09:10 
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Joined: 11/07/11
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Location: KBED, KCRE
Aircraft: Phenom 100
We had a similar situation with a tail number change at purchase as the prior owner wanted to keep the original number. This was in May of 2021, we had the paperwork back from the FAA in under 2 months, I'm not sure if it was through a titling company as we used a buyer agent from Elliot and he handled it all. Now the MMEL paperwork on the other hand.....some how the FAA lost that for about 4 months but I finally tracked down a local individual's email address and he processed it within a week. I get that the MMELs are tail specific, but this was literally the same factory MMEL that all 100s use I presume. :crazy:

If the CJ2 (or any 525) had the mustang cockpit, it would be an amazing airframe. I just can't get past the floor yoke and cramped seating.

Chip-


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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2023, 10:21 
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Company: Citation Jet Exchange
Location: St. Louis
Aircraft: 58P C510 C525 Excel
Tour of the CJ2 and CJ2+ pointing out the similarities and some key differences.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/wqFk3pseTtc[/youtube]

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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2023, 12:16 
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Joined: 01/24/10
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1967 Baron B55
Why does the CJ2+ not have a belted potty?


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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2023, 13:02 
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Joined: 04/19/17
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It was an option. Most were spaced with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2023, 13:05 
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Joined: 04/19/17
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The belted potty was an option.


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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 26 Jun 2023, 20:24 
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This 2006 did not come with it. The 2008 we just sold has a belted lav and a side facing seat.

We had a quote from Cessna 4 years ago for $86k to install a belted lav in the 2006, insane, but even more insane the owner went to act on that last year and Textron came back at a "go away" price of $238k, and they are literally the only one the world to be able to install it. Needless to say we passed.

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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 27 Jun 2023, 23:43 
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Joined: 03/22/14
Posts: 103
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Location: KMYF/ Kamiah, ID
Aircraft: C525, AC90
The market for the CJ2’s touching the low 3mil. mark makes sense, but the additional 1.5 mil. for the CJ2+ seems out of whack. That’s a big premium for the FADEC and better fuel burn.

I’d take the dual 750’s over the Collins FMS.
The premier had available the proline-21 synthetic vision add on from IS&S . . .something like that would make the CJ2 with GTN’s a reasonably nice cockpit for single pilot ops, but I don’t believe syn-vis is ever going to make it to the CJ line.

Didn’t the sierratrax guy have a one-off CJ2 with a Garmin/textron upgrade that never made it to the marketplace.? That would be a killer airplane.

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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2023, 07:40 
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Company: Citation Jet Exchange
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I agree - I sold our 2008 CJ2+ with dual FMS's to a local client. I told him my dream setup would be adding a GTN 750 w/ GDL69A and FS510 to replace the backup (useless) FMS. The situational awareness from the 750 combined with the singular FMS and it's capabilities would be a sweet ride.

We manage a straight CJ that was converted to the G600TXI w/ 750s and GFC 600 AP, it's a joy to fly behind. Shame it's only certified for the CJ right now.

-The Citation Jet Exchange

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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 28 Jun 2023, 19:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
I agree - I sold our 2008 CJ2+ with dual FMS's to a local client. I told him my dream setup would be adding a GTN 750 w/ GDL69A and FS510 to replace the backup (useless) FMS. The situational awareness from the 750 combined with the singular FMS and it's capabilities would be a sweet ride.

We manage a straight CJ that was converted to the G600TXI w/ 750s and GFC 600 AP, it's a joy to fly behind. Shame it's only certified for the CJ right now.

-The Citation Jet Exchange



We are very seriously entertaining taking our older classic CJ (sub s/n 100) and doing just this to help extend its life. Dual 600’s, 750’s, autopilot. The whole smash. Would love to get some detailed feedback on your experience with it in the CJ.


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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2023, 10:55 
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Aircraft: 58P C510 C525 Excel
Username Protected wrote:


We are very seriously entertaining taking our older classic CJ (sub s/n 100) and doing just this to help extend its life. Dual 600’s, 750’s, autopilot. The whole smash. Would love to get some detailed feedback on your experience with it in the CJ.


I find that upgrade to speak for itself, it's an absolute pleasure to fly behind those beautiful displays. The GFC600 is butter smooth, intelligent, and offers more capabilities than the stock AP on the CJ/CJ1/CJ2. The 750s follow the simple Garmin logic and provide a wealth of information, we have the FS510 as well to beam info to the tablets.

A had a few clients ask about a CJ1 vs a G600TXI CJ, my opinion is that there is no comparison. You are dealing with 23 year old technology of the proline suite that doesn't offer much more than a digital AI and HSI, the MFD is basically useless in todays terms due to the limited amount of info it can display, and it's absurdly expensive to repair any part of the Proline system ($35k for a screen).

Garmin components are used in a wide variety of GA aircraft (and even into mid-large cabin jets now) meaning that parts availability is common and not terribly expensive. Example: A G3000 screen went bad on our M2, an exchange with Garmin was only $3200.

Upgrading to a full Garmin suite on the CJ eliminates the old tech which can fail more often, and is a more expensive product to repair. We've been chasing an AP issue on a non G600XI CJ we manage for years and just can't pin it down. On this CJ it came with the integrated Garmin audio panel and 750s with the Jet Tech STC for LPV approaches, certainly a nice feature to have. Recently we installed a GI275 backup display in that CJ to replace the tiny peanut gyro, I feel much more confident now with that as a backup.

The upgrade to 525-0151 happened before we bought the plane but it looks like they spent around $375k at West Star for the upgrade. The planes with this package are trading quite a bit higher and selling faster than non-upgraded CJs. One "negative" is that when we fly single pilot we need to carry around 150lbs of ballast in the nose due to all the weight that was removed.

There are limitless ways to configure the displays although I prefer having a full screen PFD in front of me. You can technically have 6 different displays between the 2 PFDs and 2 750s which is just information overload to me, and the party trick of having a moving map overlaid on the HSI.

I just upgraded my G600 to G600TXI on my 58P, I felt it was worth the upgrade no matter the cost.

-The Citation Jet Exchange
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 Post subject: Re: Because we needed a CJ2 / CJ2+ thread...
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2023, 15:45 
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Thanks Corey for the detailed response. It’s nice to hear from someone flying behind the package.


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