Show me a $750/hr turbine that has:
- 8 seats
- 1,180 lb baggage capacity & volume
- 1,200 mile range
- a potty
- $500k buy-in

I think we've done this before...

One thing to be aware of is that only the 1975 421B can be known ice. 1974 and earlier 421s cannot, or at least, cannot without great expense so none of them are FIKI. All of the 421C can be known ice.

Personally I would try to get a 1976 to 1979 421C. Significantly less daft fuel system and simple straight leg gear.

Mike C.

The 73/74 B models have boots and alcohol and various heated doodads. They’re not approved for fiki but they are still quite capable

The 421 fuel system is the same one used on the 310/340/414 of the era. The C models were simplified but it’s not as crazy as it sounds at first glance.

I owned a 421C briefly.I looked at the whole thing closely then, and once since then.

My observations were that the particular bits were not more likely to break than those on any other airplane. But most 421's have more or less all the bits, with fire bottles, boots, heated windshields, radar altimeters (do they still made those?) radar, AC (don't buy one without AC), so plan on spending more.

Things that penetrate the pressure vessel, like control cables, are more expensive to replace. The pressurization itself can cause problems, but that doesn't seem to be a dominant issue.

I loved the engines. The starter adapter is a potential source of expense, and the directive not to "let the prop drive the engines" strikes me as important. I obtained and studied the engine manuals available from TCM and recommend that to anyone. The GTSIO engines in the 421 are one of the rare engine installations that might run LOP unmodified.

For all that, a 421 offers a great deal more than a light twin without that power and pressurization, not to mention the weather capability and comfort, both from pressurization and low prop RPM, and room.

If you're considering a 310-Baron class machine, engage in the following thought experiment: Find the 421 performance charts, and figure out OEI climb rates and etc, but loaded not to max, but with a fuel load that duplicates the range of the 310/Baron and the max full-fuel payload of the 310/Baron. When I did that, the 421 was around 300 pounds under gross. The difference in SE performance is striking.

So if you're gonna buy a P-piston twin, this is what I picked, and would pick again. The 340 is also a great choice. The 414 is the worse aspects of the 340 and 421 in one airframe, is how I see it.

But if I was going to do it again, I would not. I'd look at an older MU2 (F model, if I wanted low CAPEX) for less money than a good 421, a Turbo Commander if you like them better or require freon AC, or a Merlin if you like quests and need the range and the room. I think the Merlin overall is the most desirable airframe if you plan to stay on pavement, but the support is not as strong as that from Mitsubishi or Twin Commander. Erwin K might argue with me on the pavement, and has pointed out that Merlin main wheels are the same size as KA 200 wheels.

Mike C reported something to the effect that you are buying an airplane but also entering an ecosystem, and I think that is overlooked. Not unlike my observation that you get to take the girl home, but you marry the whole family.

I suspect you'd spend about the same operational money on a Garrett TP as a good 421 figured per mile, with less time traveling and fussing about with the airplane. And you'd go a lot faster with incomparable SE performance and weather capability.

The daunting cost of turbine overhauls is mitigated by buying/renting engines by the hour. The ability to do this might just vary a LOT by exactly which engine you have. I'd drill deep into that. This, besides the regal KA cabin, is the only strong point of King Airs from this owner-operators view. PT6 engines are widely available used at good prices.

Any of these airplanes can throw a $100,000 maintenance year at you, or maybe 2X that you have some karma coming. Or worse. If you need to budget closely, owning one of these might be disappointing. A windshield and one engine will very nearly get you there in a glass windshield 421C.

Free advice, worth every penny.

Just for the record, you may want to include the '79 model year as a straight leg...

Gary S

I got my multi rating at Arlington,TX. At that time I was considering the 421 and the Merlin but had never seen either plane. My plan was to take a look at both and hopefully get a flight also. The 421 broker I had been in contact with was sufficiently condescending that I never went to look at the 421 but instead hopped on a plane to San Antonio to check out a Merlin there. Went for a ride in it and I was sold. Got a plan together, trained with two different trainers and ended up in a very nice off market C model.

There is a “400 series twin cessna” book that has a details about the all of them. I bought that book when I was considering the 421.

Gary beat me to it but I corrected the date range in Mike C's post (bold).

Also, typically 100 pounds more useful load which impacts every minute of every flight, not just the 2 seconds of touchdown which can be smoother in the 1980 & after (roughly 100 pound heavier empty weight) trailing link 421Cs.

My 79 421C straight leg weighs in at 5090 lbs. still has steam gauges on co pilot side that I will eventually take out and save another 20lbs Take off max weight of 7450lbs gives me 2360 useful load.

The dash photo was taken after panel upgrade and annual. They did not do a great job of fuel system set up so I since took it back to Air impression in Waco to get it dialed in they know their stuff. They did find a crack in one cylinder so its been there a longer than I wanted. LOL With 12 HP cylinders there is bound to be an unhappy one in the bunch. Thats like having 12 wives. LOL

The cracked cylinder will cost me about $3K so not too bad. The Gotchas in a 421 are usually less than $5K a Gotcha on a TP can be much much more.

Mike

Wow! Gorgeous panel and stunning interior!

https://www.ironplanet.com/for-sale/Air ... ia/4299823

Flyable airplane sold for $40K USD the other day.

Low times, looks reasonably clean. Budget $60K for the first annual and $50K for some avionics upgrades into it...you have an incredible capable airplane for $150K. Hard to beat IMHO.

Last annual Oct 1 2019???? I wouldn't go anywhere near that, even with a fresh top.

Hand that bird to any knowledgeable Twin Cessna shop and I guarantee a six-figure plus quote.

How many times has it been said on BT that there are no good 'bargains' in the complex piston twin market?

That's true of pretty well any airplane. Toss the keys & your wallet to a big name shop and you get what you deserve.

That airplane doesn't appear to have been a ramp rat...Fresh tops, zero time props. Recent paint and boots. Low airframe hours. History of commercial MX. At some point you have to say "Ok, that airplane is worth the gamble". I mean come on...if the thing is a disaster the props and engines are worth what you paid for it.

Yes, the big p-twins are blood thirsty mistresses but "never" is a long time. This is the closest I've seen in a long time to a bargain p-twin. Best case cheap starting point, worst case you're out some time and either up or down a few bucks.

That may be okay.

You pay $50K for a 421B and get it fixed up for $100K. Now you have systems that have been just fixed and looked at properly. You can also decide on how to fix it, choosing to emphasize long term value instead of short term cost, for example.

If you buy a $150K 421B, you ain't spending $0 the first year on fix ups, either.

Another possible advantage is if you find some defect that is truly fatal, you are out much less money with a $50K investment than a $150K one. You can probably part it out and get most of your money back.

Another advantage: states charge sales tax on purchase but often not on repairs (my state is like that). That incentivizes buying low and fixing it yourself.

Mike C.

On a 421, if you get a good prebuy you should know whether there are big items to fix.
If I remember correctly, the big items are the engines, glass, main gear, exhaust and the engine rails. Everything else is pretty much the same as other planes.

I'm not looking at a B

I want hydraulic gear...

I want a wet wing, not tip tanks....

That means I need a C

I'm not against trailing link...
I'm not against the straight legs ones.... I have never had an issue landing the 414
It might be better for a straight leg aircraft as i could add winglets

Not sure if I want standard fuel to locker tanks.....
Not looking for a cream puff, I want a project that I can upgrade to my wants and needs, but can still use as i go