19 Apr 2024, 20:53 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 01 Mar 2022, 19:26 |
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Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3109 Post Likes: +2225 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: FWIW, the AD estimates the part (b) inspection to take 3 hours. It's not just a visual once-over. It says to clean the components with a solvent, then dry. Remove heat shields, polish suspect surfaces with crocus cloth. Visually inspect the whole thing. Measure exhaust joint springs, then remove them, then measure them again, then reinstall them and measure them again.
Show me that AD For the 421C? I have never seen or heard that requirement for a GTISO 520.
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... 340065CD46
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 01 Mar 2022, 20:29 |
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Joined: 02/09/09 Posts: 5590 Post Likes: +2549 Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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Username Protected wrote: I change my oil every 35 hours and do the inspection at the same time. The inspection is simple and takes about 30 minutes. FWIW, the AD estimates the part (b) inspection to take 3 hours. It's not just a visual once-over. It says to clean the components with a solvent, then dry. Remove heat shields, polish suspect surfaces with crocus cloth. Visually inspect the whole thing. Measure exhaust joint springs, then remove them, then measure them again, then reinstall them and measure them again.
Section (b) is only a visual inspection... If you find suspect areas, you have to correct them prior to flying again.
"(b) At the Initial Compliance Time and Repetitive Compliance Times specified in Figure 1 of this AD, visually inspect the exhaust system for burned areas, cracks, or looseness. If any area of the exhaust system shows damage as defined in the Appendix of this AD, prior to further flight, repair or replace the damage part. "
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 01 Mar 2022, 20:31 |
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Joined: 02/09/09 Posts: 5590 Post Likes: +2549 Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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Username Protected wrote: I do every 25 hours with filters every 50. you change your oil on your engines every 25 hrs? is that normal for a 421? i thought it would be more like 100 hrs?
Does anyone with a piston engine do an oil change at 100 hours? I'm not sure I've heard of anyone doing that even though most engine manuals say you can do it (with a filter change at 50)..
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 01 Mar 2022, 20:34 |
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Joined: 02/09/09 Posts: 5590 Post Likes: +2549 Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
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Username Protected wrote: There are a also a few AD’s to be considered - one is the exhaust, even for 91 operators. Inspection every 50 hours and replacement every 12 years. This was something I didn't know about the 421's. So if you're on a 40 hour oil change schedule and 50 hour mandatory exhaust inspection, you're doing (2) shop visits every 50 hours?? Ugh.
Just about every turbocharged twin (other than a Seneca) have an exhaust AD.
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 01 Mar 2022, 20:36 |
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Joined: 07/06/14 Posts: 3008 Post Likes: +1993 Location: MA
Aircraft: Cessna 340A
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Username Protected wrote: FWIW, the AD estimates the part (b) inspection to take 3 hours. It's not just a visual once-over. It says to clean the components with a solvent, then dry. Remove heat shields, polish suspect surfaces with crocus cloth. Visually inspect the whole thing. Measure exhaust joint springs, then remove them, then measure them again, then reinstall them and measure them again. Section (b) is only a visual inspection... If you find suspect areas, you have to correct them prior to flying again. "(b) At the Initial Compliance Time and Repetitive Compliance Times specified in Figure 1 of this AD, visually inspect the exhaust system for burned areas, cracks, or looseness. If any area of the exhaust system shows damage as defined in the Appendix of this AD, prior to further flight, repair or replace the damage part. " The items I mentioned are in the Appendix, describing how to do the visual inspection.
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 01 Mar 2022, 20:38 |
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Joined: 07/06/14 Posts: 3008 Post Likes: +1993 Location: MA
Aircraft: Cessna 340A
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Username Protected wrote: Just scroll down to page 2853 and read it? Items I mentioned are on the next page under Visual Inspection.
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 01 Mar 2022, 20:40 |
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Joined: 07/06/14 Posts: 3008 Post Likes: +1993 Location: MA
Aircraft: Cessna 340A
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Username Protected wrote: Just scroll down to page 2853 and read it? Items I mentioned are on the next page under Visual Inspection. But... the spring removal I described does say only if you see an issue with the spring, so I take that back.
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 01 Mar 2022, 22:28 |
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Joined: 01/12/11 Posts: 311 Post Likes: +79
Aircraft: C-182J
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Username Protected wrote: I know a guy that says Juan is “no bueno, beware!, Air Impressions, good…”
That’s just his experience, all is alleged….
So you’re passing along an alleged insult to a shop from a third party? That’s incredibly unhelpful. Juan maintained my 421 and King Air. No, not cheap, but good. Ronert
Robert, I didn’t get it from a third party. The guy I know just posted on the Twin Cessna forum about his experience. I know him personally, and he is a good friend. So no, not a third party. His experience was indeed horrible. I have been following this ever since he bought his airplane, and sent it to this shop. The reason I used “alleged “ is because I still believe you are innocent until proven otherwise. The FAA will decide…
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 02 Mar 2022, 02:30 |
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Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3109 Post Likes: +2225 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: So you’re passing along an alleged insult to a shop from a third party? That’s incredibly unhelpful.
Juan maintained my 421 and King Air. No, not cheap, but good.
Ronert
Robert, I didn’t get it from a third party. The guy I know just posted on the Twin Cessna forum about his experience. I know him personally, and he is a good friend. So no, not a third party. His experience was indeed horrible. I have been following this ever since he bought his airplane, and sent it to this shop. The reason I used “alleged “ is because I still believe you are innocent until proven otherwise. The FAA will decide…
Any shop that gets a good reputation as the goto “X” shop or shops, can start charging more, or they grow and the guy actually working on your plane might not be that great and experiences are inconsistent, or “the guy” that knows everything about the type retires or moves on but of course that isn’t announced. Or they could still be great.
In the twin Cessna world, the shops are TAS, dfw (Juan) and air impressions. Tony Saxton at TAS is an obvious stand out, he’s helped the FAA, Cessna, and now owns the type club. There was a petition to name the airport they are based at after him. They have wall to wall twin Cessnas 365 days a year, and he is known to be fair. Even with them, Tony is unlikely to be the one working on your airplane. I’ve been to air impressions, and felt it was expensive and said so publicly and they reached out to correct the issue (to their credit). I have heard good things. I have heard mixed things about DFW.
West Star, Yingling, and Technicair Fresno are the 411 shops. I’ve spend a good amount of time at west Star. Almost the entire staff has turned over since they made their name with 441s, and they focus more on jets now and are not shy at sending invoices. The person in charge of that part of the company (who is excellent) was doing something else not too long ago, so if they are good or not is not from the people who made the name. Yingling I was told the experts are all gone. Technicair there is one Tony saxton type there I am told (Bruce maybe?) but we haven’t ventured out that far as we’re in Denver.
As Mike said, you buy into an ecosystem with these airplanes. That ecosystem changes from year to year, and your ownership experience and costs will be much different depending on how knowledgeable you are about not just your airplane, but that ecosystem as wel.
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Post subject: Re: What do you know about the Cessna 421C Posted: 02 Mar 2022, 13:02 |
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Joined: 06/24/14 Posts: 94 Post Likes: +75 Location: Fort Worth, TX (KFTW)
Aircraft: C421
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Username Protected wrote: Jeff,
Your MT props - are they 4 blades? As far as other mods go, you can still get the main gear wheel covers and I’m told that the Strake mod is also obtainable. I was unaware that the winglets were no longer an option.
John That's correct, we've got the 4-blade. I'm told that the wheel covers and strakes are obtainable (and helpful), too.
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