banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 07:00 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 12:04 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/06/08
Posts: 4665
Post Likes: +2678
Aircraft: B55 P2
Its really a velocity (or more accurately total energy issue) .

Getting to orbital altitude (300 km) doesn't take much energy, but accelerating to 9km/s orbit speed does. Almost all of the energy in an orbital launch is for the horizontal velocity.

Virgin galactic was about mach 3. That is where you start to think about thermal issues

At mach 5, it gets hard. (sort of the definition of hypersonic)

Orbital reentry is about mach 25, and lunar reentry (Apollo) as around mach 35.

The Galileo jupiter probe entered the atmostphere at around 60km/second, which woudl be mach 125 or something with earth's atmosphere. Jupiter is mostly hydrogen so the mach number was lower, but the heating was fantastic. 300 G decelerations its a fantastic engineering feat that that probe survived.


Username Protected wrote:
How high do you have to be to do a full blown reentry like the space shuttle did?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 12:37 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/21/08
Posts: 5428
Post Likes: +6112
Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
I know nothing about the physics involved, but my wife and I were lucky enough to be there in person to witness this historic flight. It was an amazing thing to see, but the release and rocket motor firing, followed by the twin sonic booms or re-entry were awe inspiring. Then to watch the spaceship come into view being chased by an Extra 300, and making a textbook pattern and touchdown was one of the coolest things I have ever seen!

_________________
I'm just here for the free snacks


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 13:05 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Then to watch the spaceship come into view being chased by an Extra 300, and making a textbook pattern and touchdown was one of the coolest things I have ever seen!

And viewing it from the ground costs so much less than being aboard!

It is a amusement park ride for rich people.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 13:15 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/26/15
Posts: 9514
Post Likes: +8745
Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
Username Protected wrote:
Then to watch the spaceship come into view being chased by an Extra 300, and making a textbook pattern and touchdown was one of the coolest things I have ever seen!

And viewing it from the ground costs so much less than being aboard!

It is a amusement park ride for rich people.

A lot like aviation used to be, back in the noughts.

:pilot:

Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 13:19 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/21/08
Posts: 5428
Post Likes: +6112
Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
Username Protected wrote:
It is a amusement park ride for rich people.

Mike C.

Yep, and more power to them! If and when I have the money, I will send my deposit. There are about 600 people in front of me as of last week.
This is cutting edge technology, and every private flight gets us that much closer to another milestone in aviation. I support them 100%. We are overdue for some breakthroughs.

_________________
I'm just here for the free snacks


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 13:39 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
We are overdue for some breakthroughs.

Technology wise, there are few with this flight. The only real innovation is a vehicle configuration which is, unfortunately, limited to a very narrow use case of limited utility.

Business wise, maybe it is a new profitable business, but I suspect it won't be. It will lose its luster when a few hundred have done it and there's no real adventure or uniqueness left in it.

So I'm not sure what breakthrough you are looking for, I don't see it.

Meanwhile, SpaceX is pushing technology for space harder than anyone has in decades and making quite remarkable progress. Landing and reusing boosters, making orbital flights cheaper, building satellite Internet, developing a super heavy rocket, etc. All this has real and present utility for humans all over the planet, not just a 5 minute joy ride for a handful of rich people.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 13:48 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/24/08
Posts: 2718
Post Likes: +1012
Aircraft: Cessna 182M
Username Protected wrote:
We are overdue for some breakthroughs.

Technology wise, there are few with this flight. The only real innovation is a vehicle configuration which is, unfortunately, limited to a very narrow use case of limited utility.

Business wise, maybe it is a new profitable business, but I suspect it won't be. It will lose its luster when a few hundred have done it and there's no real adventure or uniqueness left in it.

So I'm not sure what breakthrough you are looking for, I don't see it.

Meanwhile, SpaceX is pushing technology for space harder than anyone has in decades and making quite remarkable progress. Landing and reusing boosters, making orbital flights cheaper, building satellite Internet, developing a super heavy rocket, etc. All this has real and present utility for humans all over the planet, not just a 5 minute joy ride for a handful of rich people.

Mike C.


Mike

Your Jeremy Bentham is showing...

which is a good thing

RAS

Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 13:55 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/21/08
Posts: 5428
Post Likes: +6112
Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
Username Protected wrote:
We are overdue for some breakthroughs.

Technology wise, there are few with this flight. The only real innovation is a vehicle configuration which is, unfortunately, limited to a very narrow use case of limited utility.

Business wise, maybe it is a new profitable business, but I suspect it won't be. It will lose its luster when a few hundred have done it and there's no real adventure or uniqueness left in it.

So I'm not sure what breakthrough you are looking for, I don't see it.

Meanwhile, SpaceX is pushing technology for space harder than anyone has in decades and making quite remarkable progress. Landing and reusing boosters, making orbital flights cheaper, building satellite Internet, developing a super heavy rocket, etc. All this has real and present utility for humans all over the planet, not just a 5 minute joy ride for a handful of rich people.

Mike C.

Let us know when you've done better. I will celebrate your success, just as I am celebrating Branson's.
_________________
I'm just here for the free snacks


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 15:46 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/26/15
Posts: 9514
Post Likes: +8745
Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
There's something to be said about demonstrating the reliability of the vehicle, that is to shoot a tube into space and back and have the pink meat packets stay alive and to do it again and again so that the reliability is measured more like common flying: dispatching on schedule more often than not rather than merely dispatching at all, after delays ("better late than never" paradigm).

There is also some technology transfer. They're talking about intercontinental shots, like UK to Australia. Of course the economics and practicality of this are terrible right now, essentially a hypersonic/suborbital business jet with a ten thousand mile range, not to mention the jet lag.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 17:07 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Let us know when you've done better.

Everyday I do something better than Virgin has done, just in a different field of endeavor.

Achievement means you did something that was hard.

Progress means you did something that was hard that is truly useful.

Virgin Galactic is an achievement.

SpaceX is progress.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 17:38 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 1845
Post Likes: +1819
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
My lord I am happy to have you back on BT Mike C.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 17:57 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/06/08
Posts: 4665
Post Likes: +2678
Aircraft: B55 P2
Doesn't intercontinental require much higher speeds, (near orbital) so that the reentry system and rockets they have are not appropriate?

stagnation temperature goes roughly as V squared, so going form mach 3 to mach 10 is not at all straightforward.

Username Protected wrote:
There's something to be said about demonstrating the reliability of the vehicle, that is to shoot a tube into space and back and have the pink meat packets stay alive and to do it again and again so that the reliability is measured more like common flying: dispatching on schedule more often than not rather than merely dispatching at all, after delays ("better late than never" paradigm).

There is also some technology transfer. They're talking about intercontinental shots, like UK to Australia. Of course the economics and practicality of this are terrible right now, essentially a hypersonic/suborbital business jet with a ten thousand mile range, not to mention the jet lag.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 19:18 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/08/12
Posts: 810
Post Likes: +954
Location: Ukiah, California
Username Protected wrote:
So this seems to be the first time maybe I haven’t seen the inhabitants/ passengers of a high altitude / low orbit vehicle wearing a pressure suit with helmet. Why is that? Seems like depressurization of the capsule would be a possibility without a plan B


And they all had parachutes on (and only parachutes). It takes a heck of a lot more than a parachute to execute a successful emergency exit. The parachutes seemed to just be a photo-op prop.

Dan


Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 19:22 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/08/12
Posts: 810
Post Likes: +954
Location: Ukiah, California
Username Protected wrote:
We are overdue for some breakthroughs.

Technology wise, there are few with this flight. The only real innovation is a vehicle configuration which is, unfortunately, limited to a very narrow use case of limited utility.

Business wise, maybe it is a new profitable business, but I suspect it won't be. It will lose its luster when a few hundred have done it and there's no real adventure or uniqueness left in it.

So I'm not sure what breakthrough you are looking for, I don't see it.

Meanwhile, SpaceX is pushing technology for space harder than anyone has in decades and making quite remarkable progress. Landing and reusing boosters, making orbital flights cheaper, building satellite Internet, developing a super heavy rocket, etc. All this has real and present utility for humans all over the planet, not just a 5 minute joy ride for a handful of rich people.

Mike C.


This is what I saw, a five minute carnival type ride. So a few weightless minutes, then glide to a landing. For how many million$ apiece? I don't get it.

Dan

Top

 Post subject: Re: Virgin Orbit Success, designed in Long Beach, CA.
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2021, 20:42 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/26/15
Posts: 9514
Post Likes: +8745
Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
Username Protected wrote:
Doesn't intercontinental require much higher speeds, (near orbital) so that the reentry system and rockets they have are not appropriate?

stagnation temperature goes roughly as V squared, so going form mach 3 to mach 10 is not at all straightforward.

I'm wondering the same things for the same reasons. I might not have looked hard enough but the numbers on SS3 are a little hard to find.

I'm curious about what they're expecting out of it and/or what they've got on the drawing board too.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.dbm.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.camguard.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.