24 Apr 2024, 16:04 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Cirrus Vision jet request  Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 13:18 |
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Joined: 12/24/18
Posts: 486
Post Likes: +484
Location: KHFD
Aircraft: F33A
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Any Vision Jet drivers on the forum?
Need a favor. Can someone with the Vision Jet POH/AFM run a quick flight plan for a flight from KHPN to KPBI (and one for the return) using existing headwinds/tailwinds and tell me how long each leg would take (TO to Landing)?
Also, what is your average operating cost per hour for this plane?
Art
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 14:43 |
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Joined: 12/24/18
Posts: 486
Post Likes: +484
Location: KHFD
Aircraft: F33A
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Thanks. Didn't consider using fltplan.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 16:13 |
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Joined: 08/10/14
Posts: 1734
Post Likes: +832
Location: Northwest Arkansas (KVBT)
Aircraft: TBM850
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Username Protected wrote: I'd much rather see you buy a $300K Citation 501 that will outperform in all respects a $3 million Vision jet.
Mike The 501 has at least one fewer airframe parachutes. 
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 16:17 |
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Joined: 08/10/14
Posts: 1734
Post Likes: +832
Location: Northwest Arkansas (KVBT)
Aircraft: TBM850
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Username Protected wrote: Art,
You can set up a plane on FltPlan.com
I do that for planes I either fly or am curious about.
Using normal cruise (rather than mct)
No wind 3:33 direct
Using realist routings and winds today suggested by FltPlan
Hpn to pbi
3:48; 242 gal
Coming back
3:57; 253 gal
Note sf50 holds just under 300 gallons
Realistically, unless you don’t care how much you pay for insurance and/or don’t care that they require 100+ hrs with a mentor pilot I would start with a conversation with an insurance broker. Whichever plane the insurance points you towards may lead to a better overall ownership experience. If I flight plan that route in ForeFlight for a TBM850 today it says 3:11 with 185g at FL300, roughly the same on the return today. No type rating required.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 16:17 |
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Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 19959
Post Likes: +19705
Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
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Username Protected wrote: I'd much rather see you buy a $300K Citation 501 that will outperform in all respects a $3 million Vision jet.
Mike The 501 has at least one fewer airframe parachutes.
Yes and twice as many engines. That's a heck of an expensive parachute.
_________________
My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 16:18 |
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Joined: 06/07/12
Posts: 537
Post Likes: +900
Location: Addison, TX
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Username Protected wrote: I'd much rather see you buy a $300K Citation 501 that will outperform in all respects a $3 million Vision jet.
Mike The 501 has at least one fewer airframe parachutes.
The 501 has a least one more 1Mil MTF propulsion devices.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 17:49 |
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Joined: 08/23/10
Posts: 849
Post Likes: +661
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Username Protected wrote: If I flight plan that route in ForeFlight for a TBM850 today it says 3:11 with 185g at FL300, roughly the same on the return today. No type rating required. Is that for direct? In Foreflight, I'm coming up with the TBM about 10 mins faster on 300#s less fuel compared to the SF50 for a typical ATC cleared route following the coast.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 18:07 |
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Joined: 07/17/15
Posts: 530
Post Likes: +502
Location: KSRQ
Aircraft: C510
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Deleted
_________________
Tony
Last edited on 22 Dec 2020, 18:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 19:40 |
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Joined: 12/24/18
Posts: 486
Post Likes: +484
Location: KHFD
Aircraft: F33A
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Thanks everyone.
I’m really happy with my F33A. The question was to get an answer for my brother (not a pilot). He’s on Wall Street and getting pitched by numerous parties trying to sell him a Vision Jet. He wanted to know how it would compare to the full size biz jets he currently leases when needed.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 19:57 |
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Joined: 08/10/14
Posts: 1734
Post Likes: +832
Location: Northwest Arkansas (KVBT)
Aircraft: TBM850
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Username Protected wrote: If I flight plan that route in ForeFlight for a TBM850 today it says 3:11 with 185g at FL300, roughly the same on the return today. No type rating required. Is that for direct? In Foreflight, I'm coming up with the TBM about 10 mins faster on 300#s less fuel compared to the SF50 for a typical ATC cleared route following the coast.
It was an ATC cleared route per ForeFlight but does go 130mi offshore so it might be too much of a shortcut for the TBM (or SF50).
The over-land route alternative is showing 3:36.
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 21:22 |
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Joined: 01/03/15
Posts: 7
Post Likes: +12
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FWIW, Read & learn from BT every day, but don't comment much. Thought I would share my limited experience with an older but very capable/flexible Turboprop as a
what-if comparison.
Cessna Conquest II, C441-10
RVSM FL350
Using tonight's WX/Winds and the typical IFR routing KHPN-KPBI (have not done that trip) and using my FLTPLN.com aircraft set up .. which I have found fairly accurate
Trip - 970NM, Plan 290 Knot Cruise
- FL300 - FLTPLN.com calcs - Sweet spot up higher for FL/Time/Fuel Burn trade offs
- (I've actually seen 287 to 310 knots at this altitude - temp dependent)
- Flight Time 3:36hrs (some headwind)
- Max T/O Wt. 10,165 lbs
- Ramp fuel for a trip like this with 445 gallons about 2980 lbs. (Holds 475g) of JetA+
- Assume 900 Lbs. Load - Storage/Cabin - 1 Owner/Pilot, 3 Adult Pax/baggage/stuff
(partial seating load). Plenty of room to stretch out. Has Pilot/Co-Pilot seat + 4 club
+ 7th seat (when needed), +3 place Belted Potty/Divan (used mostly for in-cabin
baggage space , but did use only 1 time for a 6 year old on short trip. BTW, he
loved to close the Potty door and be in his fort.)
- Fuel needed: 271 Gallons, 1815 Lbs (w/o IFR Reserves)
- S/U, Taxi, clearance (13 gallons), 85 lbs
- T/O, Cruise, Land - (258 gallons), 1730 lbs
- Land with 174 gallons Jet A+, 1165 lbs.
- Able to meet IFR reserves/Alts (minimum 350 lbs., I prefer min 600 lbs.), still have
extra fuel. Then option to tanker fuel, Reduce fuel & reduce T/O weight or Trade off
extra fuel for more Pax/Baggage.
Not for everyone, not a jet, no parachute, but two turbine engines/propellers, comfortable, easy access to cockpit seats (no pedestal) ... and serious, but fun to fly.
Safe Holiday flying to all!
Fred
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Post subject: Re: Cirrus Vision jet request Posted: 22 Dec 2020, 22:02 |
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Joined: 08/14/13
Posts: 6074
Post Likes: +4651
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Username Protected wrote: I don't have any performance data on the SF50, but I'm always amused on here when someone makes an inquiry about another airplane and everyone chimes in to tell him what he should do instead.  Exactly, hey I’m looking to spend 2-3m on a new airplane with all the gadgets, what performance and opex can I expect? BT response: hey buy this 40 year old project plane that, when the stars align, will beat the performance for 2x the opex, best of all, it is barely insurable! You want a brand new airplane to depreciate that you can carry a warranty on? What a fool you must be!
Last edited on 22 Dec 2020, 22:03, edited 1 time in total.
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