BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 13:18

Any Vision Jet drivers on the forum?

Need a favor. Can someone with the Vision Jet POH/AFM run a quick flight plan for a flight from KHPN to KPBI (and one for the return) using existing headwinds/tailwinds and tell me how long each leg would take (TO to Landing)?

Also, what is your average operating cost per hour for this plane?

Art

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 13:56

Art,
You can set up a plane on FltPlan.com

I do that for planes I either fly or am curious about.

Using normal cruise (rather than mct)

No wind 3:33 direct

Using realist routings and winds today suggested by FltPlan

Hpn to pbi
3:48; 242 gal

Coming back
3:57; 253 gal

Note sf50 holds just under 300 gallons

Realistically, unless you don’t care how much you pay for insurance and/or don’t care that they require 100+ hrs with a mentor pilot I would start with a conversation with an insurance broker. Whichever plane the insurance points you towards may lead to a better overall ownership experience.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 14:43

Thanks. Didn't consider using fltplan.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 15:25

I'd much rather see you buy a $300K Citation 501 that will outperform in all respects a $3 million Vision jet.

Mike

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 16:13

Username Protected wrote:

I'd much rather see you buy a $300K Citation 501 that will outperform in all respects a $3 million Vision jet.

Mike

The 501 has at least one fewer airframe parachutes.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 16:17

Username Protected wrote:

Art,
You can set up a plane on FltPlan.com

I do that for planes I either fly or am curious about.

Using normal cruise (rather than mct)

No wind 3:33 direct

Using realist routings and winds today suggested by FltPlan

Hpn to pbi
3:48; 242 gal

Coming back
3:57; 253 gal

Note sf50 holds just under 300 gallons

Realistically, unless you don’t care how much you pay for insurance and/or don’t care that they require 100+ hrs with a mentor pilot I would start with a conversation with an insurance broker. Whichever plane the insurance points you towards may lead to a better overall ownership experience.

If I flight plan that route in ForeFlight for a TBM850 today it says 3:11 with 185g at FL300, roughly the same on the return today. No type rating required.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 16:17

Username Protected wrote:

I'd much rather see you buy a $300K Citation 501 that will outperform in all respects a $3 million Vision jet.

Mike

The 501 has at least one fewer airframe parachutes.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 16:18

Username Protected wrote:

I'd much rather see you buy a $300K Citation 501 that will outperform in all respects a $3 million Vision jet.

Mike

The 501 has at least one fewer airframe parachutes.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 17:49

Username Protected wrote:

If I flight plan that route in ForeFlight for a TBM850 today it says 3:11 with 185g at FL300, roughly the same on the return today. No type rating required.

Is that for direct? In Foreflight, I'm coming up with the TBM about 10 mins faster on 300#s less fuel compared to the SF50 for a typical ATC cleared route following the coast.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 18:07

Deleted

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 19:40

Thanks everyone.

I’m really happy with my F33A. The question was to get an answer for my brother (not a pilot). He’s on Wall Street and getting pitched by numerous parties trying to sell him a Vision Jet. He wanted to know how it would compare to the full size biz jets he currently leases when needed.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 19:53

I don't have any performance data on the SF50, but I'm always amused on here when someone makes an inquiry about another airplane and everyone chimes in to tell him what he should do instead. :scratch:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 19:57

Username Protected wrote:

If I flight plan that route in ForeFlight for a TBM850 today it says 3:11 with 185g at FL300, roughly the same on the return today. No type rating required.

Is that for direct? In Foreflight, I'm coming up with the TBM about 10 mins faster on 300#s less fuel compared to the SF50 for a typical ATC cleared route following the coast.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 21:22

FWIW, Read & learn from BT every day, but don't comment much. Thought I would share my limited experience with an older but very capable/flexible Turboprop as a
what-if comparison.

Cessna Conquest II, C441-10
RVSM FL350

Using tonight's WX/Winds and the typical IFR routing KHPN-KPBI (have not done that trip) and using my FLTPLN.com aircraft set up .. which I have found fairly accurate

Trip - 970NM, Plan 290 Knot Cruise
- FL300 - FLTPLN.com calcs - Sweet spot up higher for FL/Time/Fuel Burn trade offs
- (I've actually seen 287 to 310 knots at this altitude - temp dependent)
- Flight Time 3:36hrs (some headwind)

- Max T/O Wt. 10,165 lbs
- Ramp fuel for a trip like this with 445 gallons about 2980 lbs. (Holds 475g) of JetA+
- Assume 900 Lbs. Load - Storage/Cabin - 1 Owner/Pilot, 3 Adult Pax/baggage/stuff
(partial seating load). Plenty of room to stretch out. Has Pilot/Co-Pilot seat + 4 club
+ 7th seat (when needed), +3 place Belted Potty/Divan (used mostly for in-cabin
baggage space , but did use only 1 time for a 6 year old on short trip. BTW, he
loved to close the Potty door and be in his fort.)

- Fuel needed: 271 Gallons, 1815 Lbs (w/o IFR Reserves)
- S/U, Taxi, clearance (13 gallons), 85 lbs
- T/O, Cruise, Land - (258 gallons), 1730 lbs
- Land with 174 gallons Jet A+, 1165 lbs.
- Able to meet IFR reserves/Alts (minimum 350 lbs., I prefer min 600 lbs.), still have
extra fuel. Then option to tanker fuel, Reduce fuel & reduce T/O weight or Trade off
extra fuel for more Pax/Baggage.

Not for everyone, not a jet, no parachute, but two turbine engines/propellers, comfortable, easy access to cockpit seats (no pedestal) ... and serious, but fun to fly.

Safe Holiday flying to all!

Fred

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 Dec 2020, 22:02

Username Protected wrote:

I don't have any performance data on the SF50, but I'm always amused on here when someone makes an inquiry about another airplane and everyone chimes in to tell him what he should do instead. :scratch:

Exactly, hey I’m looking to spend 2-3m on a new airplane with all the gadgets, what performance and opex can I expect?

BT response: hey buy this 40 year old project plane that, when the stars align, will beat the performance for 2x the opex, best of all, it is barely insurable!

You want a brand new airplane to depreciate that you can carry a warranty on? What a fool you must be!

Cirrus Vision jet request