29 Mar 2024, 01:26 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 19 Mar 2021, 11:20 |
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Joined: 12/08/12 Posts: 812 Post Likes: +954 Location: Ukiah, California
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AOPA announces a new school for Jump Pilots and Emergency Bailout Course for Aerobatic and Warbird Pilots: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... dium=emailThis is along the lines of what I thought has been needed for some time. Run by Ed Scott, long time USPA (United States Parachute Association) drop zone operations specialist. On this page is an ad for a modern emergency parachute which is of a square (ramair) design. Personally, I would not use a round parachute for emergency bailout (lots of reasons for this, Ed goes into some of them in the ad). His Jump Pilot courses are a bit spendy but his one day course in bailout procedures and parachute familiarity is indeed a step in the right direction. My personal opinion is that it should include a tandem jump for a much more immersive experience. Maybe I should contact Ed on this. Dan
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 19 Mar 2021, 12:48 |
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Joined: 12/25/10 Posts: 5743 Post Likes: +3434 Company: Occasionally Pleasant Location: Bourland Field 50F Cresson, TX
Aircraft: H35, C-172
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Username Protected wrote: AOPA announces a new school for Jump Pilots and Emergency Bailout Course for Aerobatic and Warbird Pilots: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... dium=emailThis is along the lines of what I thought has been needed for some time. Run by Ed Scott, long time USPA (United States Parachute Association) drop zone operations specialist. On this page is an ad for a modern emergency parachute which is of a square (ramair) design. Personally, I would not use a round parachute for emergency bailout (lots of reasons for this, Ed goes into some of them in the ad). His Jump Pilot courses are a bit spendy but his one day course in bailout procedures and parachute familiarity is indeed a step in the right direction. My personal opinion is that it should include a tandem jump for a much more immersive experience. Maybe I should contact Ed on this. Dan One day? I used to give aerobatic club an hour presentation on parachutes and usage. Maybe cause I am old, but can not think of the need to abandon a jump plane in more than a couple instances. I do remember one DZ owner state he didn’t want a jumper as a jump pilot. He thought they would be too quick to get out.. I am interested why you would prefer a square to a round. I have a square in a Softy and a Piglet in a Softy. I did some testing of Piglets. Among others. The square rig is lighter and more comfortable, fully steerable not disabled like most reserve squares. In my experience while squares have been shown to be less likely to malfunction, when they do, they are far more likely to be unsurvivable than a round malfunction. I have 33 reserve rides. Five in one weekend with not to be named brand of square before we realized the steering lines set wrong and they were opening in a stall. None of them would have been useful to have an open casket funeral.
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 12:12 |
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Joined: 12/25/10 Posts: 5743 Post Likes: +3434 Company: Occasionally Pleasant Location: Bourland Field 50F Cresson, TX
Aircraft: H35, C-172
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Username Protected wrote: My understanding about using rounds for emergency use was that they opened more quickly and that an untrained pilot (or unconscious one) could get hurt landing a square / steerable chute - a round one just goes down and has limited lateral movement on landing.
True/false?
I’ve worn a parachute hundreds of times, but only jumped (tandem) once so I don’t have a ton of experience in the space!
Robert Yes and no. The squares are detuned so to speak. However, if packed wrong, that is ‘slider” down, the opening force could kill you. This would be highly unlikely. The round would just hurt. Usually. After the teething episodes with them thar new fangled flying wing things, malfunctions became an event not a common place occurrence of the round era. Except for the military, round are mostly used for aircraft emergency systems. In part to simplify landing for the non jumper and cost. Harness, container are custom made and reserves have size with weight and speed restrictions. The heavy, awkward, uncomfortable surplus units are rarely seen outside a museum. The available rounds today are far more reliable than the former options. The whole plane Cirrus chute was designed and tested by a major manufacturer of reserve parachutes. I was working on a DC3 at the airport during the extremely entertaining process. The initial prototypes before they perfected the slider system would open almost immediately and self destruct with a crack like a cannon going off. The weight’ dummy’ would bury itself in the lakebed and they retrieved it with a back hoe for the next attempt. The twin Otter would make top speed at 500ft and the dummy, on tracks, was pushed out.
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 12:41 |
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Joined: 01/29/09 Posts: 4693 Post Likes: +2403 Company: retired corporate mostly Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
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Late reply to CK, Quote: I got in the attic and found my Dad’s helmet from the 70’s. The interior and rubber coaming was shot If it says Flite Sound on the front it is a CalMil helmet. I and many sprayer friends wore them in the late 70s ,80s... Mine is a shell only now also. I cant find anyone who sells the rebuilt kits for them anymore.
_________________ Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 15:43 |
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Joined: 12/13/07 Posts: 2604 Post Likes: +2740 Location: DFW, TX (KGKY)
Aircraft: B55, PT-17, J3, SNJ
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Username Protected wrote: Late reply to CK, Quote: I got in the attic and found my Dad’s helmet from the 70’s. The interior and rubber coaming was shot If it says Flite Sound on the front it is a CalMil helmet. I and many sprayer friends wore them in the late 70s ,80s... Mine is a shell only now also. I cant find anyone who sells the rebuilt kits for them anymore. I posted these on the biplane thread, but will add them here. Flight helmet.com redid mine and did a very nice job. Took about 2.5/3 months. I had Oregon Aero seals around the headphones installed along with wiring for the CEP system. A flex boom mic topped it off with a three foot dual prong cord with a quick release couple. I love it - and my Dad was beyond happy to see it getting some real use again rather than rotting away in the attic.
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 21 Mar 2021, 15:54 |
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Joined: 04/06/11 Posts: 7895 Post Likes: +3908
Aircraft: Warbirds
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Username Protected wrote: As an expert parachutist and neophyte pilot (licensed but low time, not current) what exactly happens during acro that requires an emergency exit?
Are there structural failure concerns? Unrecoverable attitudes? Engine fires?
Are there documented cases of acro pilots having to bail out? If so, what were the causes? Case studies would be valuable here.
Any thoughts on all this?
Dan Have worked with this guy and on this A/C. He had trouble exiting and ended up breaking his leg when it got caught in the cockpit, then was sucked out and hit the horizontal stab. That deployed his chute and broke his neck. He has recovered and is an Airline Pilot and still flys warbirds. [youtube]https://youtu.be/cb76IDs0POA[/youtube] Sean Tucker Bailed out of his Oracle Special during a practice routine back in 06. A consummate Airshow Performer with thousands of Aerobatic hours discusses his bailout. His was a control failure and he spent a bunch of time to try to figure out a way to land the A/C but ended up having to abandon it. He had a bunch of time that most won't have to make that decision. [youtube]https://youtu.be/gm4dXC7aVzs[/youtube] I've lost some I've known whom I wished had used, or had been able to use, the chute.
_________________ Be careful what you ask for, your mechanic wants to sleep at night.
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 22 Mar 2021, 18:34 |
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Joined: 09/09/14 Posts: 776 Post Likes: +1729 Location: Grove Airport, Camas WA
Aircraft: Cub, Stearman
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Really, really good discussion here.
There are myriad reasons that a parachute would be smart. Any formation flying, structural failure, G-induced control system damage or FOD restrictions. With a 79 year old military airplane, designed in the thirties with engine technology from the 'roaring twenties', it's just nice to have a little bit of peace of mind that if need be, I can exit the airplane and maybe even live. It's a safety system, just like good harnesses and a helmet, and Nomex flightsuit. Probably never need any of them. Until you do. And then it sure is nice to have them.
My ex-Pararescue friend, a fellow airline pilot who's bailed out of a lot of good airplanes and one spectacularly bad Pitts always says:
"Dress for the jump, not for the flight."
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 22 Mar 2021, 18:40 |
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Joined: 09/09/14 Posts: 776 Post Likes: +1729 Location: Grove Airport, Camas WA
Aircraft: Cub, Stearman
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Username Protected wrote: One thing jumps out at me when considering emergency exits as far as equipment is concerned and that is wearing a hard helmet during acro flights. Whacking a part of the airplane on exit is a serious possibility and one absolutely should have one on for ANY parachute landing. Even if you land in flat soft ground, you don't want to bounce your noggin on something hidden and hard (rock, chunk of wood, etc.).
These are my thoughts for now. I'm still interested in further thoughts on this subject although I don't want to hijack a great Stearman post!
Dan Not hijacking at all. I wear my helmet every single flight, acro or not.
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 23 Mar 2021, 08:03 |
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Joined: 09/02/09 Posts: 8415 Post Likes: +8303 Company: OAA Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
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Username Protected wrote: I tried ANR a couple of times early on, but it was pretty ineffective - whether it was the wind or the ambient noise complexity...never could get it to work. I have CEP wired for my passenger’s David Clark (in a canvas helmet) and it really helps. I have a Campbell Aeroclassics helmet (they are an outfit in New Zealand) that really blocks out the wind noise - which is a lot worse in the back cockpit. That helmet is a dream (Kevlar, classic looks, customized fit, good audio etc), but it is a financial commitment. Thankfully that check was written years ago and I don’t think about it too much anymore...ha. I hate to even tell you this because you paid the full price but I found a used Campbell Aeroclassic helmet on Craigslist a few years ago for $165.00, yes that's right, $165.00. The guy was very specific about that price. I wasn't going to argue. For passengers, I've got a few cloth and leather helmets with DC headsets. http://www.campbellaeroclassics.com/id2.htmlFor a chute, I bought a fanny pack one a few years ago. I can't remember the brand.
That's an amazing price! IIRC I paid about $1400 for mine. When you order they send you a set of calipers to measure your head in several axes and the resulting fit is perfect. I guess for passengers you can just adjust padding but I find a canvas helmet works fine and several of my friends eschew a helme for a backwards ball cap.
As for ANR my experience has been that it's actually harder to hear than with passive.
Another big issue is the mike muff. Having a leather cover with a rear facing hole really helps keep the wind noise down.
When I bought my first Waco years ago the seller gave me a cloth helmet with a pair of David Clark's installed but with no microphone. I never used them but in my current plane I have a switch to turn on/off the intercom. That works great at keeping wind noise down and if you have it off and the passenger wants to say something they simply raise their hand and you turn it on.
My parachutes make things a bit cramped. Maybe the seat version is the way to go. Regardless, remember to repack them on schedule!
_________________ Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120 Never enough!
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 23 Mar 2021, 19:33 |
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Joined: 02/22/09 Posts: 2549 Post Likes: +1936 Location: KLOM
Aircraft: J35, L-19, PT17
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That guy even included a helmet bag and googles. He was oddly particular about the price, $165 firm. I didn't haggle. Regarding the chutes, the WW2 military seats, as far as I know, were all set up for seat chutes. No idea what the WACO's are made to use. Is the seat back padding easily removable? I could take off the seat back pad on my citabria and use a back pack chute. Before I realized I could do that, it was tight. Username Protected wrote: I hate to even tell you this because you paid the full price but I found a used Campbell Aeroclassic helmet on Craigslist a few years ago for $165.00, yes that's right, $165.00. The guy was very specific about that price. I wasn't going to argue. For passengers, I've got a few cloth and leather helmets with DC headsets. http://www.campbellaeroclassics.com/id2.htmlFor a chute, I bought a fanny pack one a few years ago. I can't remember the brand. That's an amazing price! IIRC I paid about $1400 for mine. When you order they send you a set of calipers to measure your head in several axes and the resulting fit is perfect. I guess for passengers you can just adjust padding but I find a canvas helmet works fine and several of my friends eschew a helme for a backwards ball cap. As for ANR my experience has been that it's actually harder to hear than with passive. Another big issue is the mike muff. Having a leather cover with a rear facing hole really helps keep the wind noise down. When I bought my first Waco years ago the seller gave me a cloth helmet with a pair of David Clark's installed but with no microphone. I never used them but in my current plane I have a switch to turn on/off the intercom. That works great at keeping wind noise down and if you have it off and the passenger wants to say something they simply raise their hand and you turn it on. My parachutes make things a bit cramped. Maybe the seat version is the way to go. Regardless, remember to repack them on schedule!
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Post subject: Re: Boeing E-75 Stearmans Posted: 24 Mar 2021, 16:23 |
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Joined: 12/08/12 Posts: 812 Post Likes: +954 Location: Ukiah, California
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To be sure, I would have no problem strapping on a parachute assembly for an emergency bail out with a round parachute packed within, having done so many times in my past parachuting career (sometimes for acro flights, mostly as a backup or reserve parachute).
In doing do I would want to know the following:
1) Size of canopy. 2) Type of steering modifications (typically this is a matter of meshed covered windows in the rear bottom edge of the canopy). These modifications serve three main purposes, a) reduce or eliminate oscillations, b) provide some measure of forward speed and c) allow for steering by deflecting the openings to rotate the canopy. 3) Expected rate of descent based on exit weight of the airman. 4) Expected turn rate. 5) Method of initiating turn (colored lines, soft toggles, etc.).
My first (and only) reserve ride was after cutting away a malfunctioned main parachute. The term "cutaway" is used to describe the actuation of canopy attachment hardware on the harness that totally releases the canopy so a clean deployment of the reserve can take place.
My reserve canopy was a modified 26' Navy Conical, a common reserve parachute at the time. I was upwind of the drop zone over many hazards (drainage canals, dirt roads, electrical lines, a golf course clubhouse, cattle, tractors, etc.). In testing the turn rate I was astounded to discover that it took excessive force to initiate a turn (no toggles, I had to grip the lines with clenched fist) and the turn rate was extremely slow. Being that I only needed to head directly down wind in the hope of reaching the drop zone, this was (at the time) less of a concern.
As I got closer, it looked as though I was not going to make it. Bordering the north boundary of the DZ was a row of telephone poles carrying 12 KV of AC for a small community at the highway 5/33 junction. I immediately started a turn to my left hoping to be able to land on the road running alongside the poles thinking that if I didn't, I would run square into the electrical lines at great risk.
The result, since I was turning so slowly, was I ended up aligned with the electrical wires and I went down between two of them that were about 3' apart. I got as thin as I could get so as to clear them, which I did. Had I outstretched my arms there would not have been a need to cremate me, I would have turned into a french fry.
Here are poor quality pictures taken from a screen capture of a super 8mm film being taken by a friend of mine at the time. The first picture shows the type of steering modification (which is a "T" mod in this particular canopy), the second shows the electrical lines shorting out with my cutaway Paracommander hanging in the phone lines at the golf course clubhouse in the background. I was not injured except for a scratch on my right leg as I brushed the barbed wire fence running along the boundary.
This was indeed a unique circumstance but I did not do due diligence in learning how my reserve parachute performed and had to figure it out on the way down.
After this jump, I got rid of this canopy and bought one (same type, 26' Navy Conical) with what is called a "tri-vent" modification (three square cutouts at the rear skirt band of the canopy). Before packing it into a reserve container, I rigged it up as a main and test jumped it to become familiar with its performance.
More in the next post...
Dan
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