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12 Aug 2022, 02:12 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2022, 10:25 
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I am interested in finding a Siai Marchetti S211. A bit hard to find- so I thought I'd reach out to the collective braintrust here.

If you've owned one, please shoot me a PM- would like to hear your experience.

If you know anything about them, please share!

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2022, 10:34 
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Really looked hard at these. I liked the Citation engine. What I didn't like was that you would be beholden to the one guy with all the parts! My partner paid for a test flight and liked it. For the parts reason, he went with an L-39 which he is installing the TFE-731 at Code One. If you PM me, I can probably dig up the S211 guru's number.

One other thing to think about is the S211 is significantly more expensive to buy than a converted L-39.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2022, 10:40 
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I have a flight manual in pdf. PM me if you need it. I have precisely one hour in the 211 and liked it. Silly simple to fly and super forgiving. It's great for aerobatic training including spins. I'm not sure if you can do that in a L-39. APS in Mesa operates two of them so they might have some leads for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2022, 11:16 
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Joined: 01/31/12
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Company: French major
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Get an Alphajet my friend!

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2022, 00:51 
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Call Doug Matthews. He knows more about the S211 than most, and has been importing them.
https://classicfighters.org/

A friend of mine got rated in it last year. He really likes it and may start teaching in it. PM me if you want me to try to connect you two.

Username Protected wrote:
Get an Alphajet my friend!


1. That's a completely different league of aircraft. I've got about 14 hours in the Alpha, and it performs better than the T-38 in pretty much everything.

2. Hans sold his Alpha Jets off, I believe. So you'll maybe... maybe... find one on the market somewhere for sale, and it will be $1M+.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2022, 16:00 
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I would not have expected the Gadget to be performing better than the T38.

As to finding one, yes, they are not easy to buy. The ones we have in Tours and Cazaux are getting long in the tooth.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2022, 19:10 
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Joined: 08/21/13
Posts: 289
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Company: Horizon Aviation
Aircraft: T303, Pitts M12, L39
A friend and I were at Osh in 2016. There were a pair of S211s on the ramp with “for sale” signs. $350K apiece roughly. My friend and I started talking…. He already owned a SF260 - so we were familiar with the joy of buying factory parts for an Italian warbird. Not cheap.

So I called Mike at Air Power (or whatever his company’s name is). He’s the sole importer of Alenia parts. I asked him about parts support for the 211. He said “Do yourself a favor and buy an L-39. It’s easier to support and much less expensive.” So when the guy who I would buy parts from tells me not to buy Alenia, I listen!

We bought a very good L-39 from Code 1 in 2018 and then proceeded to doll it up. It’s now a monster with full garmin, Garrett 731, great systems, US O2, and whatnot,

I really like the 211, but we’ve been very pleased with the support and operation of the L-39.

Zeke


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2022, 19:10 
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Duplicate - because the internet is smarter than I am. Z


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2022, 20:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
A friend and I were at Osh in 2016. There were a pair of S211s on the ramp with “for sale” signs. $350K apiece roughly. My friend and I started talking…. He already owned a SF260 - so we were familiar with the joy of buying factory parts for an Italian warbird. Not cheap.

So I called Mike at Air Power (or whatever his company’s name is). He’s the sole importer of Alenia parts. I asked him about parts support for the 211. He said “Do yourself a favor and buy an L-39. It’s easier to support and much less expensive.” So when the guy who I would buy parts from tells me not to buy Alenia, I listen!

We bought a very good L-39 from Code 1 in 2018 and then proceeded to doll it up. It’s now a monster with full garmin, Garrett 731, great systems, US O2, and whatnot,

I really like the 211, but we’ve been very pleased with the support and operation of the L-39.

Zeke


Dollars and parts aside; I’m struggling with buying an old eastern bloc jet compared to one designed by a country that thrives on clean lines, speed, and sophistication.

What motor did you end up putting in the L39?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2022, 20:21 
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So an L-39 or S-211 look like they could be a lot of fun......
Don't the operating limitations pretty much kill it for anything other than an airshow?
IE can I just go fly it for fun, take a friend for a ride, or use it in any way that
is kosher with a strict reading of the the operating certificate limits?

I realize that the FSDO's are not enforcing the strict rules, but they are written down and it seems like one is tempting fate to just "nudge nudge wink wink" ignore them?

Now if one had the AB Experimental operations rules they would seem way cooler to me..


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2022, 23:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
So an L-39 or S-211 look like they could be a lot of fun......
Don't the operating limitations pretty much kill it for anything other than an airshow?
IE can I just go fly it for fun, take a friend for a ride, or use it in any way that
is kosher with a strict reading of the the operating certificate limits?

I realize that the FSDO's are not enforcing the strict rules, but they are written down and it seems like one is tempting fate to just "nudge nudge wink wink" ignore them?

Now if one had the AB Experimental operations rules they would seem way cooler to me..

Do whatever you want with it.
Ok well in the post ADSB-Pandemic maybe skip the local pier and racetrack buzzjobs… but otherwise unrestricted.

Tom

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AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx
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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 03:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
The ones we have in Tours and Cazaux are getting long in the tooth.

They closed the BA 705 Tours last year .

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 04:50 
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Username Protected wrote:
The ones we have in Tours and Cazaux are getting long in the tooth.

They closed the BA 705 Tours last year .


Yes and thank you for the correction, sorry I meant to say the ones that were flying in Tours at the time. 2 different blocks (unless they were finally updated, I was gone by then). To think they have been replaced by PC21 in Cognac...Except for the PAF of course.
The Belgian ones are pretty good too, sold to Top aces if I remember correctly.
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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 06:41 
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We put the Garrett 731-3 in it. The conversion reduces empty weight substantially, increases fuel efficiency, and increases performance. Rate of climb and speed at altitude in particular.

The 39 was designed and built in Czechoslovakia. A country that suffered dearly under the Nazis and then the Soviets. It continues to be made there to this day. The quality of the workmanship and the design are clearly different than Soviet aircraft. It’s very well engineered with simple systems that are very robust and easy to maintain. We gas it and go flying with almost no unscheduled maintenance. Unlike Western jets, the pilot can pull it out of the hangar alone, hop in, and crank the engine with no ground support. I don’t know if this is the case with the 211 or whether you need a start cart for that aircraft. You don’t for the L-39.

Ops Limits govern your daily operation of the jet. Historically they varied substantially from one FSDO region to another. About 5 years ago, operators and the FAA came up with a set of standardized Ops Limits that are applied to all new applications. Our plane has been in the US for 25 years but we elected to get the new Ops Limits. While we submit an annual letter to the FAA with our intended operations (such as which air shows we’re going to attend), there is a large block of un-detailed hours called proficiency flying. Our geographic limits are the continental US. There are some geographic exclusions but we don’t find them onerous. And we take people flying in it all the time. We just cannot share a single penny of operating expenses. We can’t split fuel. Our passenger cannot take us to lunch in thanks. Nothing. So be it.

So, for the privilege of operating this non-standard category jet warbird around the US, there are indeed some limitations, but we find the trade-off worth it.

Good luck,

Zeke


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Find a Marchetti S211
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2022, 08:43 
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Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
Username Protected wrote:
We put the Garrett 731-3 in it. The conversion reduces empty weight substantially, increases fuel efficiency, and increases performance. Rate of climb and speed at altitude in particular.

The 39 was designed and built in Czechoslovakia. A country that suffered dearly under the Nazis and then the Soviets. It continues to be made there to this day. The quality of the workmanship and the design are clearly different than Soviet aircraft. It’s very well engineered with simple systems that are very robust and easy to maintain. We gas it and go flying with almost no unscheduled maintenance. Unlike Western jets, the pilot can pull it out of the hangar alone, hop in, and crank the engine with no ground support. I don’t know if this is the case with the 211 or whether you need a start cart for that aircraft. You don’t for the L-39.

Ops Limits govern your daily operation of the jet. Historically they varied substantially from one FSDO region to another. About 5 years ago, operators and the FAA came up with a set of standardized Ops Limits that are applied to all new applications. Our plane has been in the US for 25 years but we elected to get the new Ops Limits. While we submit an annual letter to the FAA with our intended operations (such as which air shows we’re going to attend), there is a large block of un-detailed hours called proficiency flying. Our geographic limits are the continental US. There are some geographic exclusions but we don’t find them onerous. And we take people flying in it all the time. We just cannot share a single penny of operating expenses. We can’t split fuel. Our passenger cannot take us to lunch in thanks. Nothing. So be it.

So, for the privilege of operating this non-standard category jet warbird around the US, there are indeed some limitations, but we find the trade-off worth it.

Good luck,

Zeke

The 211 is also self sufficient starting on battery power.
A modest performer, but simple and robust.

What’s the weight difference for a 731-39?
Sapphire gone?

Tom

_________________
Tom Johnson Agency President
AssuredPartners Aerospace Phx
Tj@AirpowerInsurance.com
C:602-628-2701


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