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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2022, 22:45 
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Joined: 12/16/09
Posts: 364
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Location: Snohomish, WA
Aircraft: PA-27 Turbo
Nope…not 4MM, but I am eagerly awaiting Norman’s candidate.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2022, 22:51 
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Joined: 12/16/09
Posts: 364
Post Likes: +157
Location: Snohomish, WA
Aircraft: PA-27 Turbo
Jacob, I’m in the same camp as you…especially after digesting that BT thread discussing the cost of a PBaron. Eye watering!


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2022, 17:38 
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Joined: 10/03/17
Posts: 319
Post Likes: +185
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
New Aztec owner here. 1972 Turbo E model, N14243. I've made two short shake down flights and am really impressed. It's big, solid and stable. A joy to fly and easy to land. Removed center right seat and the cabin is spacious. Major panel upgrade down the road.

However I do struggle getting the oil dip stick cap to snap on to the filler neck. I'm sure there's a technique that I'm lacking.

Also, One of the main gas caps has a broken handle. Can Anyone suggest a parts source?

Will post pics soon per the BT rule of no pics=didn't happen

Daniel


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2022, 18:44 
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Joined: 09/06/13
Posts: 91
Post Likes: +61
Location: Orlando, FL
Aircraft: PA27, BE9L, CE560XL
Username Protected wrote:
New Aztec owner here. 1972 Turbo E model, N14243. I've made two short shake down flights and am really impressed. It's big, solid and stable. A joy to fly and easy to land. Removed center right seat and the cabin is spacious. Major panel upgrade down the road.

However I do struggle getting the oil dip stick cap to snap on to the filler neck. I'm sure there's a technique that I'm lacking.

Also, One of the main gas caps has a broken handle. Can Anyone suggest a parts source?

Will post pics soon per the BT rule of no pics=didn't happen

Daniel


Enjoy it in good health Daniel! They are great airplanes…

If your oil dipsticks are like ours, you want to start with the collar (shaped like a hoop) in the “up” position, so roughly perpendicular to the cap itself. Get the assembly positioned over the filler neck and then press down on the cap, the hoop will snap into place. Hope that helps.

Not sure where you are located but there are several good sources of Aztec parts. Bill Turley at Aircraft Engineering in Bartow, FL is a good resource. Not sure if he’s still in business, but Grover Matthews is/was great too, 800-578-1641.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2022, 18:51 
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Joined: 01/19/16
Posts: 3272
Post Likes: +5492
Location: 13FA Earle Airpark FL/0A7 Hville NC
Aircraft: E33/152A
Username Protected wrote:
New Aztec owner here. 1972 Turbo E model, N14243. I've made two short shake down flights and am really impressed. It's big, solid and stable. A joy to fly and easy to land. Removed center right seat and the cabin is spacious. Major panel upgrade down the road.

However I do struggle getting the oil dip stick cap to snap on to the filler neck. I'm sure there's a technique that I'm lacking.

Also, One of the main gas caps has a broken handle. Can Anyone suggest a parts source?

Will post pics soon per the BT rule of no pics=didn't happen

Daniel


Causey Aviation has a PMA for new fuel caps. I believe you have to buy from their dealer network. Try Aircraft Spruce. I suggest replacing all of them if the rubber does not have enough give to push a thumbnail in. You will likely find them all to be hard and not adjustable.

I have a lot of Aztecs parts but after parting out well over 100 of them I don’t recall having very many fuel caps that were good enough to sell.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... uelcap.php

There are some similar looking caps that are not vented (hole in the middle). Using them will not end well.

If the dip sticks don’t snap down and lock in place pretty easy like Sandy said then try replacing the O rings using a correct Lycoming part #.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 07 Oct 2022, 19:19 
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Joined: 10/03/17
Posts: 319
Post Likes: +185
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
Thanks Norman and Sandy, gas cap on the way. I appreciate you guys helping me out.

Daniel


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2022, 07:38 
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Joined: 12/17/17
Posts: 24
Post Likes: +6
Company: Aqua-tots
Aircraft: Pa-27 Turbo
Username Protected wrote:
New Aztec owner here. 1972 Turbo E model, N14243. I've made two short shake down flights and am really impressed. It's big, solid and stable. A joy to fly and easy to land. Removed center right seat and the cabin is spacious. Major panel upgrade down the road.

However I do struggle getting the oil dip stick cap to snap on to the filler neck. I'm sure there's a technique that I'm lacking.

Also, One of the main gas caps has a broken handle. Can Anyone suggest a parts source?

Will post pics soon per the BT rule of no pics=didn't happen

Daniel

Daniel- I’m curious- how do you see actual cruise speeds compare to book speeds? I have 13 hours on my new-to-me 1971 turbo e model and I’m seeing 15kts less than book speeds. Curious what other turbo models are seeing.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2022, 07:50 
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Joined: 12/17/17
Posts: 24
Post Likes: +6
Company: Aqua-tots
Aircraft: Pa-27 Turbo
I need to give a big shout out to Glenn Juber! This past week he took a few days out of his schedule to come up to fort pierce and to help familiarize me with the turbo Aztec. As a current Aztec owner and an experienced A&P Glenn swiftly diagnosed and directed engine performance and cooling adjustments. We were able to fly and tinker with this airplane for a few days and I’m confident it’s the right tool for our business and family’s mission. Thanks Glenn


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2022, 08:17 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Did you find the 15kts ?

That is one pretty paint scheme !


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2022, 08:31 
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Joined: 12/17/17
Posts: 24
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Company: Aqua-tots
Aircraft: Pa-27 Turbo
Not yet. I am having a issue with the gear up light that we are investigating. My hope is that we find a door or something that is possibly dragging or something.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2022, 09:13 
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Joined: 01/19/16
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Location: 13FA Earle Airpark FL/0A7 Hville NC
Aircraft: E33/152A
I am sure that Glenn has already looked over your baffling and hopefully you can run it with the large cowl flaps closed.

Gear door rigging is a likely culprit. A hanging gear is common problem. Does the up light go out when you cycle the gear handle from neutral to up? If so could be an internally leaking actuator.

Another thing to check is the flap and aileron rigging. It is a little trickier to get perfect with the R-STOL interconnect. There is a simple template tool utilized to properly set the ailerons. I have one that I can loan to you if needed but it is pretty simple to fabricate.

There may be a slight penalty with the Miller saddle back nacelle tanks as there is a slight dip in the profile at the firewall where they join the top cowl. They have a little more surface area too.

Another slight penalty is from the inboard leading edge cuffs but Robertson claimed that the flap gap seals compensated for that. I opted to not install them on mine after another operator told me he removed his and it flew better and he got a cruise speed increase without them. He said that they did not do much except to cause a premature buffet-kind of like a stick shaker.

All of the Aztec book speeds are a bit optimistic as are most aircraft of the era. A strong running, clean and properly rigged normally aspirated model should true at 168k at 9500’. The Turbo should be a little slower down low but considerably faster above that altitude. Maybe Mark will share his Turbo numbers.

PS-how about a picture with that amazing baggage door open for those that have not seen one. I had an Aztec with one that the previous owner actually used to fly with it removed. He had fabricated a small vertical fairing and used it to air drop bundles of fence posts in the Everglades.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2022, 13:32 
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Joined: 12/17/17
Posts: 24
Post Likes: +6
Company: Aqua-tots
Aircraft: Pa-27 Turbo
Username Protected wrote:
I am sure that Glenn has already looked over your baffling and hopefully you can run it with the large cowl flaps closed.

Gear door rigging is a likely culprit. A hanging gear is common problem. Does the up light go out when you cycle the gear handle from neutral to up? If so could be an internally leaking actuator.

Another thing to check is the flap and aileron rigging. It is a little trickier to get perfect with the R-STOL interconnect. There is a simple template tool utilized to properly set the ailerons. I have one that I can loan to you if needed but it is pretty simple to fabricate.

PS-how about a picture with that amazing baggage door open for those that have not seen one.


As far as the gear up light goes, we don’t see it go on at all so we have a to explore all the gear rigging , squat switches, etc.

It sounds like this optioned- out Aztec has a few items that lend it to be a couple knots slow. I will keep hunting for speed culprits the next few trips

I included a pic we took yesterday with my wife in the back baggage compartment. Note that the back seats are out currently but it is “YuGe”. This was helpful- We had to transport some large items on the way back home to NC.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2022, 13:33 
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Joined: 12/17/17
Posts: 24
Post Likes: +6
Company: Aqua-tots
Aircraft: Pa-27 Turbo
Username Protected wrote:
I am sure that Glenn has already looked over your baffling and hopefully you can run it with the large cowl flaps closed.

Gear door rigging is a likely culprit. A hanging gear is common problem. Does the up light go out when you cycle the gear handle from neutral to up? If so could be an internally leaking actuator.

Another thing to check is the flap and aileron rigging. It is a little trickier to get perfect with the R-STOL interconnect. There is a simple template tool utilized to properly set the ailerons. I have one that I can loan to you if needed but it is pretty simple to fabricate.

PS-how about a picture with that amazing baggage door open for those that have not seen one.


As far as the gear up light goes, we don’t see it go on at all so we have a to explore all the gear rigging , squat switches, etc.

It sounds like this optioned- out Aztec has a few items that lend it to be a couple knots slow. I will keep hunting for speed culprits the next few trips

I included a pic we took yesterday with my wife in the back baggage compartment. Note that the back seats are out currently but it is “YuGe”. This was helpful- We had to transport some large items on the way back home to NC.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2022, 13:57 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
:drool:
Door Envy for sure!

Standard door with pee wee dirtbike for reference.

Attachment:
IMG-2870.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2022, 14:47 
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Joined: 12/16/09
Posts: 364
Post Likes: +157
Location: Snohomish, WA
Aircraft: PA-27 Turbo
Tommy,

Congratulations on your new ride. i'll second the opinion that is a great paint scheme...maybe the best i've seen on an Aztec. hope you don't mind but i might copy it someday!

Both Glen and Norman are super good guys to be as helpful as they are sharing their tribal knowledge.

That rear door is awesome. As shown, you could have a sleep-over back there. I'm curious if you get any wind noise? its a lot of space to keep sealed up.

My experience is a turbo PA27 really shines above FL130. i typically fly mine between 13-17k. Never had it in the flight levels but i see 180 knots up high at a power setting of 26"/2400. Burning 16-17gph per side. Same power at 10k is 170 knots. Ive never made book speeds. RH #6 cylinder runs the hottest as it is tucked up against the fuselage and furthest back. I typically open the RH cowl flap just slightly to keep that cylinder below 380*. No temp problems at all with the others.

I do intermittently lose the gear up light in flight...a reset from the neutral position gives me a small 'clunk' and the up and locked indicator light returns and stays on. Been chasing this for a while now. I've even left gear up on jacks for a couple days and it holds, so maybe Norman is right and i have an internal leak somewhere. i would like to correct this, but dread the procedure. Pretty certain its a gear door sagging.

Mark


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