24 Apr 2024, 07:16 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 10 Mar 2022, 00:33 |
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Joined: 03/17/14 Posts: 200 Post Likes: +48 Location: KSGR
Aircraft: Looking...
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Username Protected wrote: Here is a nice Aztec for sale. Could be yours for $490K. There have been quite a few E/F models advertised for over 300K lately. They used to get parted out if both engines hit TBO simultaneously. https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?ca ... e=aircraftI saw this listing too. Very nice aircraft. I have emailed with the broker. He confirmed the owner is asking $490k, “OR BEST OFFER”. He emphasized that several times. That said, and noting the aircraft does not have de-ice, boots or prop, what realistic price would be a reasonable offer in today’s heated market? What would be the maximum value an insurance company might be willing to insure it for? The broker indicated the useful load was just over 1700 lbs.
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 10 Mar 2022, 12:30 |
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Joined: 01/22/19 Posts: 887 Post Likes: +665 Location: KFXE
Aircraft: PA23-250
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Username Protected wrote: Here is a nice Aztec for sale. Could be yours for $490K. There have been quite a few E/F models advertised for over 300K lately. They used to get parted out if both engines hit TBO simultaneously. https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?ca ... e=aircraftI saw this listing too. Very nice aircraft. I have emailed with the broker. He confirmed the owner is asking $490k, “OR BEST OFFER”. He emphasized that several times. That said, and noting the aircraft does not have de-ice, boots or prop, what realistic price would be a reasonable offer in today’s heated market? What would be the maximum value an insurance company might be willing to insure it for? The broker indicated the useful load was just over 1700 lbs.
Late Turbo Aztecs normally have useful loads in the 1550-1690 range when they are really well equipped. I'd say that is the first clue that the selling price will be well below asking. It probably needs to be weighed, without fuel per the Piper manual, to find the true empty weight. The coffin door mod adds about 40 pounds, the nacelle and tip tanks add another 60 pounds, and the paint & interior add another 50-80 pounds depending on what insulation they used. You will want a copy of the weight & balance, and if it was calculated but hasn't been weighed, it will be off by a lot.
The paint job doesn't look worthy of the price either, it's nice, but it appears as a quick job to flip the plane. The avionics are nice, but not the latest, it should have the G500Txi and GTN750Xi upgrades at this price. The Garmin G5's should be flush mounted, and the panels should not look like they were painted with rattle cans. There are empty holes in the pilot's upper panel and the right side frame tube cover is missing. There is a missing interior piece to the left of the pilot's rudder pedals. The rubber boots on the rudder pedals are old, and the cold air supply duct is not even hooked up. You can see daylight coming through to the left of the copilot left rudder pedals. The stitching on the seats is overexposed and is a sign of a rush job.
With only 66 hours on the engines in four years, sitting in South Florida, you'd have to examine the insides of the engines for corrosion. Certified does excellent work, but sitting does not do the engines any good.
Overall, it's well equipped, but ti comes across as a rush job to take advantage of a hot market.
Three years ago, this was a $275K plane. It still is.
_________________ A&P/IA/CFI/avionics tech KFXE Cirrus aircraft expert
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 10 Mar 2022, 14:10 |
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Joined: 12/16/09 Posts: 364 Post Likes: +157 Location: Snohomish, WA
Aircraft: PA-27 Turbo
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My '78 Turbo F is very well equipped and it has anti-ice. <700hr engines.
Renewing insurance right now and will increase hull value to $250k (from $200). i couldn't come close to replacing it 'as-is' for that amount but the insurance companies are quoting me no problem. $1m/250 passenger, not smooth. <$4k/yr.
I agree with Mr. Huber, its a 250-$300k Aztruck at best. The coffin door is cool.
I'd be embarrassed trying to peddle for $490.
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 10 Mar 2022, 16:28 |
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Joined: 08/31/17 Posts: 1592 Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
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Who makes those? I added baffling to my nose bowls and now with arranging the baffling its an even longer job to cowl and uncowl it.
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 10 Mar 2022, 17:34 |
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Joined: 03/17/14 Posts: 200 Post Likes: +48 Location: KSGR
Aircraft: Looking...
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Jacob, I think you might do well to reach out to Mr. Earle above. There is a reason for his sarcasm. Also check out page 2 of this thread.
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 10 Mar 2022, 17:50 |
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Joined: 03/17/14 Posts: 200 Post Likes: +48 Location: KSGR
Aircraft: Looking...
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Username Protected wrote: ...I agree with Mr. Huber, its a 250-$300k Aztruck at best. The coffin door is cool... Mark and Glenn, thank you for your thoughts. I was thinking about the same on the price range, admittedly at the lower end. Mark, I still consider your Aztec one of the real Queen's of the Fleet; a great example and a beautiful airplane. I was fortunate to have talked to Mark about his Aztec several years ago when he considered selling her. Mark was a complete gentleman when we talked on the phone, offering to spend the day with us and do some flying around the San Juan Islands, and even sent me his logs for review. My wife and I had a long chat about acquiring Mark's airplane. She was on board with the idea. Then life interfered and for completely unrelated reasons we had to table the idea.
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 11 Mar 2022, 08:35 |
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Joined: 08/31/17 Posts: 1592 Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
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I remember norm you made some bowls for that white turbo Aztec think we spoke of it on the phone even. Did you make these?
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 11 Mar 2022, 21:52 |
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Joined: 12/16/09 Posts: 364 Post Likes: +157 Location: Snohomish, WA
Aircraft: PA-27 Turbo
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'Yes. I have another set available if anyone is interested.' Wait...you do? Picked up the 'Truck today for a post annual shake down flight and the r/h alternator light is lit up. Arghh. We cant even see the alternator belt w/o removing those *#@*! nose bowls. Hmmmm. Norm, can you PM me the general details of acquiring those from you? Appreciated. Mark
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 11 Mar 2022, 23:20 |
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Joined: 08/31/17 Posts: 1592 Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
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My light was just a broken ring terminal, must’ve going around this annual season.
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 25 Mar 2022, 15:55 |
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Joined: 12/17/18 Posts: 8 Post Likes: +2
Aircraft: Travel Air
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Correct me if I am wrong, I thought the quick cowl STC was only for non-turbo Aztecs??
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 26 Mar 2022, 11:20 |
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Joined: 01/22/19 Posts: 887 Post Likes: +665 Location: KFXE
Aircraft: PA23-250
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Username Protected wrote: Correct me if I am wrong, I thought the quick cowl STC was only for non-turbo Aztecs?? The Aztec Nomad STC is only for non-turbo models due to the way the lower cowl is constructed on the turbo version. Maybe these guys did a one-off DER approved mod for the turbo cowl?
_________________ A&P/IA/CFI/avionics tech KFXE Cirrus aircraft expert
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Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread Posted: 05 Apr 2022, 11:35 |
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Joined: 08/31/17 Posts: 1592 Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
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Hauled 900 lbs of people and stuff 1950 nm in little more than than 12 hours of flying. Spring break success. 2.5 yrs of ownership and everything ran like a top for the whole trip. Currently every single system and item in the airplane is working like it’s supposed to. I can’t estimate how many hours I’ve worked on this thing but I should have started a log so I could get my A&P license. NASA out the window Attachment: B994CA8F-6809-48E4-9C94-04BA7436AD0C.jpeg Best way to fight 60 kts on the nose Attachment: 2D8B06AF-8DA9-4C5B-97EC-7AB5100E3F18.jpeg Headwind brutal on way home was never less than 40. Attachment: 9C9E0C2F-E400-40D1-987F-2A661B8BE1E8.jpeg Easter is next. Big thanks to advice about baffling especially around nose bowl. I’m 10-15 degrees cooler and running cowl flaps closed at all cruise altitudes for a TAS of at least 5 kts. Finally there’s a near abandoned E model at KDNL if someone else wants a project. Interior appears decent. Paint is trashed. Has 530 430 and a century autopilot looks like.
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