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17 May 2024, 03:07 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 29 Apr 2024, 22:26 
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How do the turbo'd ones work? Do they have fixed wastegates like the Senecas? Or do they have automatic wastegates with absolute pressure controllers?


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 29 Apr 2024, 22:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
How do the turbo'd ones work? Do they have fixed wastegates like the Senecas? Or do they have automatic wastegates with absolute pressure controllers?


the 1965 to 1968 models had an on-demand turbo-normalizing system that is switch on as needed. It worked very well.
The 1969 and up models have the TIO-540-C1a which is a great engine. It has a density controller that automatically adjusts for temperature and altitude. The complete opposite of the primitive system used on the Seneca, and better than most other brand turbo systems as well.

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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2024, 22:41 
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What's the best autopilot out there for the Aztecs? I know Garmin is working on the GFC600, but that's not available yet. What are the currently certified options and how do they rate?


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 30 Apr 2024, 22:57 
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Stec 55x is only option I'm aware of Today.

Legacy or historical installed AP I've seen include the Pipermatic /Altimatic / FCS810

That's why many of us are very excited Big Garmin has decided to pay attention to us. Take my money.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 01 May 2024, 05:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
Stec 55x is only option I'm aware of Today.

Legacy or historical installed AP I've seen include the Pipermatic /Altimatic / FCS810

That's why many of us are very excited Big Garmin has decided to pay attention to us. Take my money.


I owned a 1981 F model that had the KFC 200 auto pilot.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 01 May 2024, 13:39 
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Can someone share a source for inflatable door seal? Manual or electric?

Jacob


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 01 May 2024, 13:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can someone share a source for inflatable door seal? Manual or electric?

Jacob


I've never had any luck with an inflatable seal on a PA23. It's too thick to fit properly in a couple of places, and makes the door hard to close. Slamming it closed then creates other problems.

J&M Aircraft Supply makes the original style, hollow core, bulb type PA23 door seal. JMPSL is the part number. Aircraft Spruce has it under #05-00010. Comes 25 feet per package.

It works great on PA23 cabin doors, and on the Apache 150/160/235 & 1960-1963 Aztec aft baggage doors.

People use the inflatable seals in an attempt to fill gaps that shouldn't exist. Especially at the top/aft door corner. Fix that gap by adjusting the door hinges, and rigging the latch bolts to pull the door tight against the frame.

Bob Fields Accessories has the inflatable seal. They were bought by the TALCO Group, which also owns the RAJAY turbo STC's.

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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 01 May 2024, 14:33 
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Exactly my problem at top aft of the door.

Advice on where to start? Hinges or the latch "catch"? I could fit 2 of the bulb type seals in there, on super long xc's I have a short piece of seal in the seat back that I place in the visible gap by hand.

Ashamed I've tolerated it this long. :hide:


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 01 May 2024, 14:50 
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start by adjusting or shimming the hinges to get the door to fit flush in the opening, and have equal spacing all the way around.

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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 01 May 2024, 15:52 
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Also inspect the inside structure of the door. They tend to crack for and aft of the window from big guys lowering themselves in or pulling themselves out. Many are patched with blind rivet doublers that tend to loosen up with more abuse.

I also don’t advise using inflatable door seals. They have enough force to bend the door.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 01 May 2024, 16:05 
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Thank you both


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 02 May 2024, 07:40 
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The 1967 Model C I’m working on has the selectable turbos and has 1900lb useful load but the boots are not currently installed on leading edge of wings. As far as autopilots, the older century 3c/altimatic 3 are easy to maintain, relatively easy to get fixed, and a LOT cheaper than an old rate based Stec. Garmin units will be a nice upgrade but will require lots of Ben franklins just to get in the game. However replacement components will cost and arm and a leg and no repairs at component level like the old century units. Guess thats the way of the future though.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 02 May 2024, 21:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
The 1967 Model C I’m working on has the selectable turbos and has 1900lb useful load but the boots are not currently installed on leading edge of wings. As far as autopilots, the older century 3c/altimatic 3 are easy to maintain, relatively easy to get fixed, and a LOT cheaper than an old rate based Stec. Garmin units will be a nice upgrade but will require lots of Ben franklins just to get in the game. However replacement components will cost and arm and a leg and no repairs at component level like the old century units. Guess thats the way of the future though.


I guess that was sort of my question. Were any of the legacy autopilots any good? Or if I buy an Aztec should I be budgeting for a new autopilot?

For reference, I'm a bit spoiled as the only autopilots I've spent time behind were a STEC 3100, a Trutrak, and Garmin GFC600. All digital. I'm not so much worried about the maintenance as I am the performance of the older analog ones, and their ability to interface with modern navigators to fly approaches and such.

Aztecs are great planes but the cold reality is that they top out value wise lower than say a 58 Baron. So it's a lot harder to absorb something like a $40k autopilot upgrade.


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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 02 May 2024, 21:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
The 1967 Model C I’m working on has the selectable turbos and has 1900lb useful load but the boots are not currently installed on leading edge of wings. As far as autopilots, the older century 3c/altimatic 3 are easy to maintain, relatively easy to get fixed, and a LOT cheaper than an old rate based Stec. Garmin units will be a nice upgrade but will require lots of Ben franklins just to get in the game. However replacement components will cost and arm and a leg and no repairs at component level like the old century units. Guess thats the way of the future though.


I guess that was sort of my question. Were any of the legacy autopilots any good? Or if I buy an Aztec should I be budgeting for a new autopilot?

For reference, I'm a bit spoiled as the only autopilots I've spent time behind were a STEC 3100, a Trutrak, and Garmin GFC600. All digital. I'm not so much worried about the maintenance as I am the performance of the older analog ones, and their ability to interface with modern navigators to fly approaches and such.

Aztecs are great planes but the cold reality is that they top out value wise lower than say a 58 Baron. So it's a lot harder to absorb something like a $40k autopilot upgrade.


As someone shopping for an Aztec I figured this was a good place to jump into the discussion. I’m open to all options but I’d prefer a good airframe and engines and overall in good shape. I’d be fine if the panel was crap… I fell in love with my panel in the Toga including dual G5’s, IFD 550, and the GFC500.

When the GFC600 is approved for the Aztec (and if I have one at that time) I’ll be first in line for a 500txi / GTN750 / GFC600 on a freshly cut panel. Yes it’ll be a crazy amount of $ that I’ll never see a return on but that’s not a concern of mine. No one flies these planes for the ROI! I want it for the safety and efficiency of single pilot IFR.

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 Post subject: Re: The Piper Aztec/Apache thread
PostPosted: 02 May 2024, 22:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
The 1967 Model C I’m working on has the selectable turbos and has 1900lb useful load but the boots are not currently installed on leading edge of wings. As far as autopilots, the older century 3c/altimatic 3 are easy to maintain, relatively easy to get fixed, and a LOT cheaper than an old rate based Stec. Garmin units will be a nice upgrade but will require lots of Ben franklins just to get in the game. However replacement components will cost and arm and a leg and no repairs at component level like the old century units. Guess thats the way of the future though.


I guess that was sort of my question. Were any of the legacy autopilots any good? Or if I buy an Aztec should I be budgeting for a new autopilot?
.


A Century III or Altimatic V autopilot will fly an ILS or LPV approach right down to the runway with precision. They simply need a good tuning or minor repairs to do so, if they've been neglected. That tune up will cost a fraction of the cost of a new replacement. And these analog autopilots can be serviced anywhere, in contrast to the new digital autopilots, where any repair is solved with a factory exchanged part. $$$$ and extra down time.
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