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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 19 Oct 2020, 23:55 
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Location: Stuart, FL (KSUA)
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Damn. This was on my list this year, but work got in the way.

Looks great.


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 Post subject: Re: T-28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 15:11 
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Location: Palm Springs CA
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This must have been during the clinic at Vicksburg. I hope to attend an NATA Formation Clinic someday, but the days off required and fuel burn to/from/during the event might make it cost-prohibitive for me. I don't think I could afford or justify doing all of the training required for a formation card in the T-28. I've heard there might be a formation school in SoCal that uses the Varga Kachina for training. It would be cool learn the basics and get the card there and then attend an NATA clinic for T-28 specific work.

It really does sound like a lot of fun. Maybe someday.


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 Post subject: Re: T-28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 18:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
This must have been during the clinic at Vicksburg. I hope to attend an NATA Formation Clinic someday, but the days off required and fuel burn to/from/during the event might make it cost-prohibitive for me. I don't think I could afford or justify doing all of the training required for a formation card in the T-28.


Jim -

Yes, this was Vicksburg - Agreed that it would be a hike for you! There was a clinic recently in Porterville, CA which would be a lot closer to you. There's a pretty big contingent of T28 operators on the west coast too.

The only reason to actually get a "card" is if you want to fly formation in waivered (airshow generally) airspace. If you don't have prior formation experience it will take a little time, but it's a ton of fun and definitely makes you a better pilot.

Lots of comradery at these events too, and you get to meet some neat people.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 18:35 
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Hey so stupid question, do you wear a parachute in that airplane?

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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 19:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
do you wear a parachute in that airplane?


yes.

required for NATA clinics. As it should be.

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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 19:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
do you wear a parachute in that airplane?


yes.

required for NATA clinics. As it should be.


Ok, so what are the rules for bailing out?
Engine quits, wing falls off etc?
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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 19:59 
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Ok, so what are the rules for bailing out?
Engine quits, wing falls off etc?


When you figure your chances for survival are better without the airplane than with it.

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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 20:53 
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I hope no one is offended if I take the opportunity to jump on this thread with a marginally related issue.

My longtime friend and hangar partner owns something close to 3 T-28s in various stages of disassemble/rebuild. The one closest to flyable had the flying surfaces restored to "better than new" condition with flush riveting and slightly thicker skins than stock. The controls and hydraulics were completely refurbished and installed but there are no avionics (the original military stuff was removed) and there are no engines. He also has a significant quantity of "spare parts" including extra control surfaces, engine mounts, cowlings, etc.

With his health issues and age he's concluded he's never going to complete any of these airplanes and given that my hangar that's home to most of this will be torn down sometime in the next 18 months he's looking for someone to unload some or all of it. If anyone's interested, let me know.

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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 22:02 
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Those things are huge!.

There was a guy in my neck of the woods who owned two of them. Unfortunately after having an accident in the first one, he got killed in the second one. But when he flew them it always impressed me how quick the plane was, and the sound it made. Its fuel consumption consumption was about 120 gals / hour if I remember correctly.

rgs,

Patrick.


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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 22:48 
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Those things are huge!.

There was a guy in my neck of the woods who owned two of them. Unfortunately after having an accident in the first one, he got killed in the second one. But when he flew them it always impressed me how quick the plane was, and the sound it made. Its fuel consumption consumption was about 120 gals / hour if I remember correctly.

rgs,

Patrick.


You ain't kidding. One used to live at my home airport and we'd see it out sometimes. It's been a long time, but it seems like the trailing edge of the wing was at about my eye level, and I'm 6' 2". Seemed like climbing up into it was a lot like a modern fighter, and in that regard it was probably a really good trainer.

A mutual friend of the owner used to say that he'd give a ride to anyone that asked, but I was always too sheepish to ask.


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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 21 Oct 2020, 22:52 
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Company: Forever a Student Pilot
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A Photo of the T28 that lives in my Neighborhood :D

When I was a Kid growing Up there was a T28 Parked at our Airport in Richland for Years, it always sat outside tied down :bugeye:

One Day I was at the Airport and watched the Owner pour what seemed Like a couple Dozen Quarts of Oil in it......Poor fellow was trying to get it ready to Fly and Kids were all over him, including Me :oops: asking him all kinds of Questions.....You Know just being Kids :D

I was the Oldest Kid in the Bunch about Twelve, and I was asking the Serious Questions, and got some attention :)

Finally I asked him are you Gonna Fly this Thing?........He says Yes Kid, I'm going to California, now if you'd Just Leave Me Alone, :ahhh: I'll be on my Way ;)

One more Question, How long will it take You to get to California? He says about Three Hours ;)
Well that Fellow climbed up into that thing, and Fired it Up......it Belched and Puked Smoke everywhere..............I'm thinking Man this is Cool, Finally it started to Run Pretty Good :clap:
I can see him to this Day Taking off in that Bird, Circling the Airport and off into the Horizon :eek:
Been in Love with T28s ever since, that was about 1971 :peace:

Edited out the self pity BS :roll:


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Last edited on 22 Oct 2020, 17:11, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 00:07 
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Two of my favorite flying airplanes. The Mite burns 3.8 gph, the T28 burns just a little bit more. :D

Both are ‘55 models.
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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 05:16 
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Username Protected wrote:

Ok, so what are the rules for bailing out?
Engine quits, wing falls off etc?


When you figure your chances for survival are better without the airplane than with it.[/quote].



What Jeff said. Thankfully, I've never had to use a chute. In general, "fire or structural failure....or midair".

The latter is obviously a concern in formation training....

Jeff, that B model is gorgeous. I owned a B model for a time...not nearly as gorgeous as yours....



Lance, I'd contact NATA (North American Trainer Association) and put an ad in their magazine. I'll also pass on to my neighbor, who is considering buying a 28.
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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 10:02 
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Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
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Yes, we (almost) always wear chutes. I personally also wear protective gear such as a nomex flight suit, gloves, boots, and a helmet. Not everyone does but I’ve always chosen to. Part of the reasoning for me is obviously safety, but also it puts me in the right frame of mind... a T28 is not a 172 and putting on the flight gear helps mentally reinforce that. Finally, we wear black matching flight suits when we perform and/or are on display. We are an airshow team so there’s some self promotion involved...

Username Protected wrote:

When you figure your chances for survival are better without the airplane than with it.


That’s essentially my brief to passengers. I brief that we will exit the airplane under canopy if we have a structural failure such that we can’t control the airplane or a fire that I cannot control. Otherwise we’re going to ride the plane into a field.

The POH (“NATOPS” to be technically correct) has this nice procedure for a controlled bail out but the reality is that it would likely be a chaotic affair. I usually end my brief saying “if the canopy opens and you see my boots go by your right side, follow them”.

We did brief one time flying over the Rockies from Co Springs to Grand Junction that we might elect to bail out if we had an engine failure over rough terrain...

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: T 28s
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 10:11 
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Joined: 12/29/10
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Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
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Username Protected wrote:
Those things are huge!.

There was a guy in my neck of the woods who owned two of them. Unfortunately after having an accident in the first one, he got killed in the second one. But when he flew them it always impressed me how quick the plane was, and the sound it made. Its fuel consumption consumption was about 120 gals / hour if I remember correctly.

rgs,

Patrick.


Yup, they are huge. One of the reasons I fly them - I fit!

Cruise fuel flow is around 40gph for 170-180 kts. Takeoff fuel (45 inches, 2700 rpm) is 100+ but you’re not there very long.

Acro power (36”/2400, but I’ll go up to 41” in an airshow if needed) is 60-80 gph.

Oil consumption is a gallon every couple of hours generally. Yes, gallon. We don’t bother with quarts.

Acro speeds are generally in the 200s. Aileron rolls can be done at almost any airspeed but 180 is comfortable. Loops and Cubans are 220+ entry speeds. In a formation flat pass we’ll often be 250.

I do have to watch out for the “200kts under the Bravo” speed limit when coming into our home base for an overhead break...

Finally, we (www.TrojanPhlyers.com) are essentially an equity flying club based just south of Dallas. Shoot me a note if you’re interested in more details... it’s the cheapest flying I do.

Robert


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