Figured the BT trust could help here. What is the cheapest two pilot, 2500 mile jet to own and operate? Figure 200 hours per year operating, so the calendar items will matter.

The Astra gets brought up a lot in these conversations. I am curious if there is an ‘mu2’ in the category - not sexy but super efficient, awesome performance, easy to maintain and cheap to acquire.

I am secretly hoping the answer is a Falcon 50. If one has to have a second pilot, a third engine seems like it wound give them something to do.

My friend who had a converted SII now has a Falcon 50. Great plane and does everything well except cheap. Don’t think you’ll find anything more economical than the SPX. If you really start looking you will be amazed at how few jets can actually do that mission.

Im guessing the answer definitely isn't the Falcon 50. Ive heard that what your looking for is the SPX.

Might I suggest giving the Cessna Sovereign a good look. Might be competitive.

PM Sent

If you looks at total dollars (purchase AND operating costs), it’s Astra SPx all the way. Built to go fast and far for cheap, and cheap to buy right now. We went through this exercise a while back, looked at everything out there and kept coming back to the Astra. 2500 nm non-stop in the real world (not sales brochure nonsense) means mid-size jets, which can get real expensive to operate. Currently operating 2 of them and couldn’t be happier with how they are performing. Happy to answer any questions

Ok crazy but might meet the cheep and and will 2700 statute miles. A Westwind.

The SyberJet SJ30 will do all those things, and single pilot to boot!

+1 on the Astra/Gulfstream Series.

The Astra cabin looks pretty small. How many can it seat? What would an all in annual number on something like that be? Exclude pilots.

I am in no way shopping here btw, just like learning about this stuff. Need a few more companies before I move up from Piaggio :-)

It is slightly bigger than an MU2 Marquise, which has a decent cabin size.

Astra specs
https://www.globalair.com/aircraft-for- ... pecid=1108

Marquise specs
https://www.globalair.com/aircraft-for- ... specid=362

UPDATE: Globalair says the cabin is significantly longer than the Avanti's, but have no way of validating their numbers.

Avanti specs
https://www.globalair.com/aircraft-for- ... specid=713

Every airplane has its compromises, and the cabin is the biggest compromise you have to make with the Astra. You’ll find them with seating for 6- 9 folks. To do 9, you’ll need the less common interior layout with a 3 place couch and need to put someone on the potty seat. For a short flight that’s ok, but run with 9 in the back for 4 hours, and everyone is racing to be first off when you land. One of ours has a 6 pax interior and the other one has the 7 seat layout. Not surprisingly, the six seat bird is the most comfortable, but we regularly haul 7 in the other one 2-3 hours down range and no one is complaining when we land. Would it be nice to have more room? You bet. But you can buy 5 Astras for 1 Sovereign. That’s a lot of $$ you’re spending per inch in extra width.

For cost, it’s pretty straight forward with few things to pop up and bite you, but there are a few items that can make you sit straight up if you’re not ready for it. Windshields are a weak spot due to de-lam. About $70,000 installed per windshield when it comes time to replace one. A full set of brakes and tires will set you back about $55,000. We‘ll go through 2 sets of main tires before needing brakes. Seeing our average brake replacement running 250 landings or so. Runway length and condition makes a difference here - most of our ops are in and out of 5,000+ runways so we don’t use a lot of heavy braking. It’ll happily do short runways though if you ask it to - book calls for 2300 foot landing distance at lighter weights - yes it’ll do it, I’ve seen it first hand.

Maint inspections are quite friendly with the majority hourly based instead of calendar based. Major inspections hit at 250/500/1000hr intervals with the 1000hr inspection being a 1000hr OR 4 years, whichever occurs first. We budget $50,000 for the 250hr A check, $80,000 for the 500hr B check, and $175,000 for the 1000hr/4yr C Check. Those are “out the door” numbers (labor, parts, freight, etc) at major shops (WestStar, Duncan, Standard Aero). We aren’t seeing numbers quite that big, but much better to budget high and come in low. We have had 1 unscheduled maint event between both planes in the last 12 months. We are using $40,000/yr in “unscheduled maint” though for the budget numbers. But with only 1 unscheduled event this year, the unscheduled account balance is getting quite large. We may adjust that down going into next year.

MSP Gold for the engines runs about $650/hr for the pair. If you have an apu (both of ours do), MSP runs about $90/hr for it.

Insurance has been ok, but we are seeing increases like everyone else. We do a lot of Internation ops (not now, thanks covid), so our premiums are higher to begin with. Budget $15-25,000/yr depending on coverage limits and operational area.

Obviously with 2 of them, I think it’s a tremendous bang for the buck. It’s fast, quiet, reliable, and fully supported by Mother Gulfstream (although Momma G is dang proud of her parts $$). It’ll happily depart from 5500 feet and haul you and your buddies 2500 miles at 460 knots for about $500,000 per year (not counting financing(if you elect for that)/tax/flight crew)

*edit because I’m a pilot, not an English teacher

Honestly I thought they would be cheaper to operate than that. $55,000 every 250 landings for brakes!

How many hours are you getting for that 500K a year? Hard to justify that when you can get an airplane that can do the same trip with a stop for maybe 20% the cost.

Those are some eye watering prices for the Astra. Citation V with a stop operates for about 1/4-1/3 of those prices. If anyone knows anything about Westwinds, I'd love to learn more. I heard they leak fuel but have hourly only mx.

What makes an Astro so expensive to maintain relative to a citation ultra? Is it all hydraulic? I know that’s one of the things that kills the falcon 10 and 20

Yes, if Textron price$ make us cry, get your box of tissues.
Momma "G" makes some great parts and has amazing quality control with her suppliers and the best mechanics in the world working in some really nice places for pilots, owners, A&Ps and MX Chief's to visit. They also have great AOG support as well though properly maintained IAI/Gulfstreams are rarely AOG and, if so, rarely AOG for long.

You might also look at the G100s that are out there. They are the older brother/twin to the Astra SPX.

As of late last year there were still a few old turboprop G-1s flying and, from time to time, I see them on the ramp in Savannah. It's impressive that Gulfstream still supports them.

Disclaimer - I used to be a contractor/vendor and still happily opine that they make the World's Best Premier Intercontinental Business Jet and it trickles down to the baby Gulfstreams.