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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2020, 23:18 
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We looked real hard at the Hawker 800xp when we were shopping. We looked at the Hawker and the Astra/G100 side by side on the ramp, and hands down everyone that would be riding in the back preferred the Hawker. It’s a fantastic cabin. Ultimately the Hawker was eliminated solely due to the maintenace schedule. Far and away the worst maint schedule I’ve ever seen....$$$$

We had both of ours out today. 400 mile trips each one way. 2 hrs and 510 gallons round trip. For reference for everyone - same trip in the 550 would have been 2.6 hrs and 450 gallons round trip. The CJ would have been 3 hrs and 420 gallons round trip. Not too terrible, and certainly more comfortable for our folks today since each bird had 6 on board.

We have a west coast trip a week from today. I’ll report in with our trip time and fuel and a close cost for reference for everyone.


On that class of aircraft the fuel burn differences are less important. Not stopping and being able to mostly stand up to go to the can are. CJ/550 does not compete. Nearly a 100 knots slower and crouch cabin.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 08:44 
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Aircraft: King Air C90
[On that class of aircraft the fuel burn differences are less important. Not stopping and being able to mostly stand up to go to the can are. CJ/550 does not compete. Nearly a 100 knots slower and crouch cabin.[/quote]]


I agree completely. I thought I’d mention the fuel burns to point out the efficiency of the plane. As you pointed out - we’re flying 100knots faster and hauling double the weight (21,000 lb weight in the Astra vs 11,000 lb weight in the 550 on that trip), and all it cost us was an extra 45 gallons ($150).

The ability to stand up and pee was the number 1 reason we started shopping for a larger airplane.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 14:40 
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
Westwind II. Capital costs is negligible, almost no calendar items. Trucks. TFE731's you can find at Walmart.

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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 17:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
The ability to stand up and pee was the number 1 reason we started shopping for a larger airplane.


If my wife could do that, she might buy a bigger plane, too! No one likes the Homer bucket. Four hour fuel bladders. Two hour human bladders.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 19:44 
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Westwind II. TFE731's you can find at Walmart.


:coffee:


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 21:01 
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Username Protected wrote:
The ability to stand up and pee was the number 1 reason we started shopping for a larger airplane.


If my wife could do that, she might buy a bigger plane, too! No one likes the Homer bucket. Four hour fuel bladders. Two hour human bladders.



Ha! Nothing says luxury travel quite like the honey pot :)

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2020, 22:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
We looked real hard at the Hawker 800xp when we were shopping. We looked at the Hawker and the Astra/G100 side by side on the ramp, and hands down everyone that would be riding in the back preferred the Hawker. It’s a fantastic cabin. Ultimately the Hawker was eliminated solely due to the maintenace schedule. Far and away the worst maint schedule I’ve ever seen....$$$$

We had both of ours out today. 400 mile trips each one way. 2 hrs and 510 gallons round trip. For reference for everyone - same trip in the 550 would have been 2.6 hrs and 450 gallons round trip. The CJ would have been 3 hrs and 420 gallons round trip. Not too terrible, and certainly more comfortable for our folks today since each bird had 6 on board.

We have a west coast trip a week from today. I’ll report in with our trip time and fuel and a close cost for reference for everyone.


I owned a Hawker 800A for a while and the guy I sold it too just spent 500k on a no squawk inspection. Insanity!


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2020, 07:06 
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I owned a Hawker 800A for a while and the guy I sold it too just spent 500k on a no squawk inspection. Insanity!




WOW. It didn’t happen to be a blue and white 800A did it?

While we were still entertaining the Hawker idea, I spent a long weekend in Wichita looking at some former NetJets birds Textron had (and still does). I spent all day Saturday reviewing log books on our top two candidates, and I kid you not, neither airplane went longer than 4 days without a logbook entry. 4 DAYS. Even with an in-house maint tech, that’s getting close to unsustainable. Loved the airplane, built hell for stout, but jeepers man the maint schedule is a killer.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2020, 18:20 
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So why is a hawker Maint schedule different than say a citation xls? Systems are all basically the same right?


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2020, 21:54 
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My mechanic offered me a hawker for free. It is not set up for a private flyer doing low hours per year.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 24 Oct 2020, 22:28 
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When we flew for Raytheon Travel Air and Flight Options and later with corporate flight departments; Hawker 800/850/900XP’s were (knock on wood) very reliable. Pretty much fill the seats, strategically load the luggage, fill the tanks to 10,000 lbs of fuel and it still had pretty good runway performance. We would fly 3 couples who would really party and have a fun, comfortable long flight. Externally serviced lavatory. Comfortable for 6 passengers and tight for 7 and 8 sharing the sofa. Some say Hawkers do a number of things well compared other airframes...except luggage space. On Controller website the asking prices for 2002-2004 lower time Proline 21 planes are pretty reasonable...probably reflecting the cost of MX and fuel. Lots of Hawker experienced and current contact pilots to help out. We would fly 50 hour 8 day rotations with very little MX problems. My personal high was 52 hours in 7 days. (before the 135 rules went into effect). Like the other pilot said they are easy to fly and handle nice.

MX crew said the TKS causes corrosion issues. With the expensive inspection removing the leading edge of the wing and landing gear inspection, it would be good to buy a plane with that already done. We moved on to the Challenger 300 like many other Hawker operators have done.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2020, 09:15 
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Username Protected wrote:
So why is a hawker Maint schedule different than say a citation xls? Systems are all basically the same right?



It’s real heavy on calendar inspection limits vs hourly inspections. That’s a big killer there. Also the 48 month and gear inspections are a back breaker too.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2020, 09:39 
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Joined: 10/07/18
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
Aircraft: Baron 58, Lear 35
It’s a whole different class of plane compared to a Hawker or Astra, but the Lear 36 will fly a long way, they are cheap to acquire and the engines are the Chevy 350 of the turbo fan world. Put the X/R tips on it and......well I wouldn’t want to sit in it (or any plane) long enough to burn all that fuel.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 25 Oct 2020, 22:07 
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So what’s it cost to run a Lear 36 per year?

Still best looking jet imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2500 mile range jets to run
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2020, 19:29 
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Location: KIKK......Kankakee, Illinois
Aircraft: TBM 850
I read this topic........contradiction of terms
Cheap and jet!?!
Not sure you can use those terms in same sentence? :lol:


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