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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 08:16 
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Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1712
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Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
You would be better off shopping for a later B model which will have the 180 hp Lycoming and a constant speed propellor. By the time you buy this one, get the engine done and replace the junk avionics with modern gear, you could have just purchased the B model and been ahead of the game.


I think he already owns it.



Correct bought it months ago. Just know getting to fly it. Took forever to get it back from Utah.

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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 08:17 
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Joined: 01/10/16
Posts: 1111
Post Likes: +1257
Location: KLBO
Aircraft: Cessna 172
Username Protected wrote:
You would be better off shopping for a later B model which will have the 180 hp Lycoming and a constant speed propellor. By the time you buy this one, get the engine done and replace the junk avionics with modern gear, you could have just purchased the B model and been ahead of the game.


I think he already owns it.


Oops.

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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 08:45 
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Joined: 03/05/14
Posts: 2848
Post Likes: +2868
Company: WA Aircraft
Location: Fort Worth, TX (T67)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza E33C
You can’t go sinking a boat load of money into this. But it needs to be practical.

No matter what it needs some radios.

Leave the engine alone until it starts complaining.

Paint looks nice. Fixed gear means simple, few things to go wrong with the airframe. Just the spar carry thru. Not an AD on the 177... YET. I’d look at it now, polish out any corrosion, prime and coat. If an AD comes out, all you have left is the eddy current inspection.

Airtex sells parts for the interior. Dabble in some seat covers and carpeting.

Back to the radios. Find some used stuff. KX155, GNC255 VFR gps/com and an appareo transponder with stratus for ADS-B in and out via iPad. An audio panel would be icing on the cake. Anything modern-ish is fine like a PMA7000M. Cheap and reliable.

Now you’re /U for some basic IFR. Put in the comments VFR GPS onboard and 90% of the time they will ask if you can navigate direct. Just roll with it.

Looks like a fun plane! Don’t get wrapped into the idea it need $80k in garmin glass and a brand new engine to be safe and practical.


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 08:48 
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Joined: 03/05/14
Posts: 2848
Post Likes: +2868
Company: WA Aircraft
Location: Fort Worth, TX (T67)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza E33C
Honestly, that KT97a is a good little comm radio. Skip the VFR GPS/COMM and just stack the KT97a with a KX155 and a iPad.

Even cheaper!


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 08:59 
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Joined: 04/29/13
Posts: 705
Post Likes: +476
Aircraft: C177RG, ATOS-VR
The IO-390 is only available on the RG. The cowling on the FG is not wide enough for an injected engine (angle head valve).

I would put all the speed mods on it, Fancy pant, fixed cowl flap, new style wheel pants etc. See: https://aircraftspeedmods.ca/category/cardinal-177/
With all the mods you can get the same or better performance of the 180HP engine for $6,000 to $8,000. Roy Shobchuck, designer of these mods gets 150 knots in his 180 HP FG. I owned a '70 FG with these mods and I was seeing a solid 8 knots over book speeds, and I didn't have the wing tips or brake fairings.

Vince


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 10:47 
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Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 19759
Post Likes: +19429
Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
Username Protected wrote:
The IO-390 is only available on the RG. The cowling on the FG is not wide enough for an injected engine (angle head valve).

I would put all the speed mods on it, Fancy pant, fixed cowl flap, new style wheel pants etc. See: https://aircraftspeedmods.ca/category/cardinal-177/
With all the mods you can get the same or better performance of the 180HP engine for $6,000 to $8,000. Roy Shobchuck, designer of these mods gets 150 knots in his 180 HP FG. I owned a '70 FG with these mods and I was seeing a solid 8 knots over book speeds, and I didn't have the wing tips or brake fairings.

What does the 150 mean to useful load, climb, density altitude takeoffs?

Obviously the 180 would be much better at all of them, but how "bad" is it in 150 form?

_________________
My last name rhymes with 'geese'.


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 11:45 
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Joined: 11/20/16
Posts: 6406
Post Likes: +7871
Location: Austin, TX area
Aircraft: OPA
My understanding is they changed the stabilators after '68 because they could sometimes run out of nose UP. Don't know how that would play into an engine upgrade, would want to find out first.


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 11:49 
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Joined: 01/18/11
Posts: 7681
Post Likes: +3685
Location: Lakeland , Ga
Aircraft: H35, T-41B, Aircoupe
I will trade you a high mileage Cadillac cts for it.
My grand daughter is taking lessons


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 12:10 
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Joined: 09/21/20
Posts: 22
Post Likes: +2
Location: Louisiana
Aircraft: On the Hunt
I've been looking at all manner of beyond-the-basics trainers so I'm shopping Musketeers, Sports, and maybe even a Sundowner. In the Cessna camp a '67-68 177 with the 150hp engine is also on the list as there is often a significantly lower price tag than the later 180hp 177s. In comparison to 150/2s or even more basic 172s the early 177 seems like a good trainer you wouldn't outgrow for some time.

If I do end up with a 150hp 177, I think the powerflow exhaust is probably the only sensible upgrade outside the 160hp STC cylinders. I guess if you are an A&P replacing the engine might make sense, but even then probably not.


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 17:16 
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Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1712
Post Likes: +242
Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
Honestly, that KT97a is a good little comm radio. Skip the VFR GPS/COMM and just stack the KT97a with a KX155 and a iPad.

Even cheaper!



I like how you think.

Would be hard to justify getting money into fancy radios. It’s tempting. But probably a money loser in the short term.


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 17:17 
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Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1712
Post Likes: +242
Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
I've been looking at all manner of beyond-the-basics trainers so I'm shopping Musketeers, Sports, and maybe even a Sundowner. In the Cessna camp a '67-68 177 with the 150hp engine is also on the list as there is often a significantly lower price tag than the later 180hp 177s. In comparison to 150/2s or even more basic 172s the early 177 seems like a good trainer you wouldn't outgrow for some time.

If I do end up with a 150hp 177, I think the powerflow exhaust is probably the only sensible upgrade outside the 160hp STC cylinders. I guess if you are an A&P replacing the engine might make sense, but even then probably not.



Not an AP.


I’m the guy that gets screwed by mechanics.


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 17:58 
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Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1712
Post Likes: +242
Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
You can’t go sinking a boat load of money into this. But it needs to be practical.

No matter what it needs some radios.

Leave the engine alone until it starts complaining.

Paint looks nice. Fixed gear means simple, few things to go wrong with the airframe. Just the spar carry thru. Not an AD on the 177... YET. I’d look at it now, polish out any corrosion, prime and coat. If an AD comes out, all you have left is the eddy current inspection.

Airtex sells parts for the interior. Dabble in some seat covers and carpeting.

Back to the radios. Find some used stuff. KX155, GNC255 VFR gps/com and an appareo transponder with stratus for ADS-B in and out via iPad. An audio panel would be icing on the cake. Anything modern-ish is fine like a PMA7000M. Cheap and reliable.

Now you’re /U for some basic IFR. Put in the comments VFR GPS onboard and 90% of the time they will ask if you can navigate direct. Just roll with it.

Looks like a fun plane! Don’t get wrapped into the idea it need $80k in garmin glass and a brand new engine to be safe and practical.



Fantastic mindset.


https://youtu.be/Dd_x-WZ5eYM


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 20:32 
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Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1712
Post Likes: +242
Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
I would put all the speed mods on it, Fancy pant, fixed cowl flap, new style wheel pants etc. See: https://aircraftspeedmods.ca/category/cardinal-177/
With all the mods you can get the same or better performance of the 180HP engine for $6,000 to $8,000. Roy Shobchuck, designer of these mods gets 150 knots in his 180 HP FG. I owned a '70 FG with these mods and I was seeing a solid 8 knots over book speeds, and I didn't have the wing tips or brake fairings. [/quote]
What does the 150 mean to useful load, climb, density altitude takeoffs?

Obviously the 180 would be much better at all of them, but how "bad" is it in 150 form?[/quote]


Actually, I think, as is, is flies about as good as any 172s I've flown.


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 20:40 
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Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1712
Post Likes: +242
Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
The IO-390 is only available on the RG. The cowling on the FG is not wide enough for an injected engine (angle head valve).

I would put all the speed mods on it, Fancy pant, fixed cowl flap, new style wheel pants etc. See: https://aircraftspeedmods.ca/category/cardinal-177/
With all the mods you can get the same or better performance of the 180HP engine for $6,000 to $8,000. Roy Shobchuck, designer of these mods gets 150 knots in his 180 HP FG. I owned a '70 FG with these mods and I was seeing a solid 8 knots over book speeds, and I didn't have the wing tips or brake fairings.

What does the 150 mean to useful load, climb, density altitude takeoffs?

Obviously the 180 would be much better at all of them, but how "bad" is it in 150 form?



Here are some NM picks of the Cardinal climbing up to 10.5MSL. So, ancient cardinals can climb after all.

Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


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 Post subject: Re: 1968 Cardinal Options
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2020, 20:42 
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Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1712
Post Likes: +242
Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
I will trade you a high mileage Cadillac cts for it.
My grand daughter is taking lessons


Why not start her off in a Duke?


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