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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2020, 16:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
The Wren is the predecessor to the King Katmai conversion. Most notably, it has a canard added, in addition to full span slotted flaps and other goodies.

Robertson mostly adds a cuff and droops ailerons.


Agree on all points. But I think the James Robertson that developed the Wren is the same person that did the Roberston STOL.

The Robertson for the Cessna's came both as just a leading edge and stall fence kit as well as the Full R-STOL with the drooping ailerons.

The Wren STC was not being supported and Peterson came in and took it over. He realized he could not make money doing the full-span Fowler flap version and simplified it.

I suspect he also realized the Wren had some pretty odd flight/handling characteristics. If you don't believe me look at the accident reports on them. There is a theme where they do a crosswind takeoff and will not climb. Also, you can look at the condition of the airframes - they all tend to have some pretty consistent problems just aft of the cabin.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2020, 19:11 
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Andrew,

I live in wa and owned a p210 for a number of years. I did the vitatoe conversion, and it transformed the plane. Was a true 195 to 200 kt traveller. At mtow it would climb to fl 210 in 21 mins.

Cruise lop was 55 lpm from memory. I put tip tanks on it, and the range was incredible.

And I landed it everywhere. As you know heaps of gravel strips in wa, and it handled them with ease.

Insurance is easy on these planes.

I now have a 421, and in reality it goes only slightly faster, climbs slower, and has less range than my old 210. I still land it on gravel, but it needs longer strips.

I fly a lot with my family, but when the kids leave home I’ve always thought I would go to a tbm when it’s just the two of us. But we land everywhere, and the low prop is a problem. Like you I’ve always wanted turbine, but the vitatoe p210 is most likely the best suited to wa conditions and strips (unless you can spring for a pc12!)

Pressurisation is a game changer. Flights at fl180 and above get you over most of the weather in wa.

Pm me if you want further details.

The silver eagle would also be good, but it has lower range and the same cruise speed. And twice the acquisition cost.

Cheers, Brad.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2020, 23:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
There is also a desire to get behind a turbine.

Probably no sensible reason to buy one, but I've always thought these were neat.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/HLAxircXKR0[/youtube]

[youtube]https://youtu.be/dYvS87pAe6I[/youtube]


Love those. Never got IFR certified in the US before the line was sold to some nebulous Chinese owners. I wish they would bring it back - it wasn't the fastest, but it had amazing range and was fully de-iced with hot wings etc. There are a few flying in Europe.
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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2020, 05:14 
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Joined: 08/13/11
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Location: KCLT
Aircraft: G58, C90, Cub
I flew a Silver Eagle for 100 hours in-between Barons. The Silver Eagle is more capable than the Barons I’ve owned in all but two areas - its cabin is small and it handles like a truck.

The Silver Eagle we flew was a steady 207kt airplane at anything above 10,000 feet, on 25gph, landed on less than 1000ft even when loaded, and didn’t mind going into rough strips. And pressurisation was a plus for the family, despite the modest differential.

The 250 is a fair bit lighter than the piston engine, which means the Silver Eagle could accommodate more payload than the B58, and certainly more than G58. But with three growing kids the 210’s cabin didn’t work for us.

Like everyone I looked at a turbine upgrade. TBMs, PC12s are an order of magnitude more expensive to operate than a Silver Eagle. Turbine twins are more, though I didn’t look at the MU2. The main reason for the Silver Eagle’s efficiency is that it’s a fairly simple machine and, as a conversion, it is subject to the same maintenance program as any 210.

We now partner in a 551 for longer trips and that’s a great airplane. But for the mission above, hard to beat a Silver Eagle.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2020, 05:33 
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Joined: 11/25/15
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Location: Geelong, Australia
Aircraft: P210N
I'll second the comments re the P210 Vitatoe Continental 550 conversion.

Actual performance at FL210 is a solid 205 - 210 Kt TAS using the recommended book LOP settings (30"/2500 RPM/ ~16.8GPH).

Mine does not have icing boots or radar, so that may slow things up a few knots.

If you can find one for sale, it's a great plane for much less than the Silver Eagle


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2020, 21:16 
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Peter, which plane do you have?

When I did the vitatoe conversion 5+ years ago, mine was the second in the country. Wondering if yours is one of those 2, or is there now another?

Cheers, Brad.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2020, 21:53 
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Location: Geelong, Australia
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Hi Brad,

It's VH-PXK


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2020, 09:32 
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Very nice, I am familiar with the plane.

Cheers, Brad.


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2020, 10:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
Link didn't work for me, here's all silver eagles

https://www.controller.com/listings/for ... e/aircraft

Boy those things appear to hold their value!


Wow, nostalgia moment!:

Getting ready for the 1983 Hayward-Las Vegas Air Race, in N731LU, the first one listed.

Attachment:
1983race.JPG


Now, to find a banker who's been in a coma since 2003...


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2020, 17:32 
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Quote:
Getting ready for the 1983 Hayward-Las Vegas Air Race, in N731LU, the first one listed.


Interesting how many P210's are N731..


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2020, 03:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
Quote:
Getting ready for the 1983 Hayward-Las Vegas Air Race, in N731LU, the first one listed.


Interesting how many P210's are N731..


Very nice looking aircraft! From what I have read here I might have to look into a C210P. Going faster only means less flying!


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2020, 22:28 
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Joined: 02/25/17
Posts: 236
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Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Aircraft: P210 SE, C182
Sorry - I'm a little late to the party here but I noticed a few comments in the thread that were not reflective of my experience and so I thought I'd comment.

I'm just in the process of selling my Vitatoe TN550 P210, and just purchased a P210 Silver Eagle a few weeks ago. I have about 20 hours on it now so can comment on a few things re performance, insurance, etc. I realize the Silver Eagle is not well thought of on the forum, but it was the best option for me.

Let me first say the Vitatoe converted P210 was a great aircraft. As others have mentioned, 200-210 TAS about 17,000 on 16.5 gph ish. Lots of power on takeoff, good climb performance, and cool cylinder head temps. Unfortunately I developed the desire to burn jet A. My mission is from central Canada to Southern California which takes me over the rockies and I wanted more reliability.

I started my turboprop journey looking at the PA46 Jetprop. Superior pressurization to the P210 SE (5 something psi compared to 3.35 PSI) and the ability to cruise realistically another 5000 feet higher if desired. Higher cruise speeds as well (240-260 KTAS). Jetprops are also FIKI. Price range seemed to be between 7-800K for a decent one. Problem was insurance. There are approximately 10 insurers represented in Canada and only one would quote me - $53,000 annual premium, $2M pass liability, and $104,000 deductible (all CAN numbers). This was a show stopper for me. I have no turboprop time which obviously was a significant contributing factor. Meridian was the same deal. People suggested I look at a TBM, which is clearly a better aircraft, but IF you can get one close to the SE price, the maintenance/ ops costs won't be in the same lower price league, comparatively speaking. Ops costs were important to me.

I decided to pursue the P210 Silver Eagle. Even though I had no TP time, figured my 200 hours of P210 time would help. Insurance ended up being $16,000, with $50,000 deductible - dramatically cheaper than the Jetprop and within my budget. As far as performance, my Vitatoe was actually faster although I've only been up high with my Silver Eagle when ISA temps were +15. The M250 RR engine is really impacted by temps up high. When flying it home, we couldn't get up high (we only had US VFR licenses - can't use a Canadian license to fly a N numbered aircraft in the US) but around 10,000 feet, with just a few degrees above ISA, we were doing 200 knots TAS. I suspect we'll be a little better up higher but not much - the SE is temp limited up high. I'm told with ISA-10 I'll likely be 210 TAS. Fuel burn down at 10,000 feet was 24-25 GPH, but up at 17,000 when the temps were warm, it was 21 GPH. I don't think there is another TP out there with that fuel burn but I could be mistaken. I'm told to plan for 23-24 gph. Takeoff performance when I was training was 1000-1500 feet ish with max weight. Landing when using reverse was under 5-600 feet.

For the plane I ended up with, the engine had approx 1500 hours left on it before OH, just had a hot section, full glass (G500, GTN750, 650 and 55X autopilot) and a clean airframe with new paint and newer interior for mid 600 AMU's. I don't recall seeing many Jetprops equipped similarly for a similar price. Most SE's have wing tip tanks (hence no FIKI available) and rear baggage for 147 gallons total. Even planning 25 GPH, thats lots of range.

The Silver Eagle may not fit most peoples desires, but they certainly fit my requirements and with that, I was willing to give up some of the advantages of the comparable TP's out there. If your looking for short unimproved field performance, I'd seriously consider it.

Garth


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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2020, 23:02 
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Congrats on the P210SE Garth! I think they're very cool airplanes. Those insurance costs are eye watering. Is it typical for Canada insurance to be higher?

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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2020, 00:14 
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Congrats! Always liked the Silver Eagle! And the Allison engine is easily serviced and pretty cheap to run.

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 Post subject: Re: Cessna P210 Silver Eagle Turbine
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2020, 00:27 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Aircraft: Mooney M20K 231+
Congratulations Garth, We need pictures!

Do you need the plane registered under a MOE that its now a turbine and pressurized under the Canadian rules?


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