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 Post subject: MiG-25
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2021, 22:14 
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[youtube]https://youtu.be/W1L1sU0uI0o[/youtube]

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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2021, 11:16 
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Cool video. I remember reading an article from a journalist that went on a Fly in a MiG trip. The pilot went out to the MiG-25 and drained something into a cup and offered it to the journalist. When asked what it was through the translator, she was told he was drinking the coolant. I’m sure she was thinking antifreeze coolant and turned it down, but the MiG-25 uses or used to use nearly pure alcohol. :cheers:
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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2021, 12:34 
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Thanks, Doug!


Interesting comparison early in the video of the various bombers' performance. Interception always has been primarily a geometry problem: time-distance-speed-altitude-reaction time: scramble to get airplanes off the deck minutes and seconds after the moment the alarm sounds and/or fixed missile batteries to get a firing solution and birds off the rails.

The B-52 had and still does have a lot of hustle! (Modern air-launched cruise missiles and electronic warfare add complicated elements to the simple speed+altitude comparisons of the various bombers.)

There's a very subtle moment, in the map of Europe and the old Soviet Union, where the narrator is drawing arrows of different avenues of attack and describing different things, including "allies." The arrow coming from Western Europe includes the old French counterpart to the U.S. Chrome Dome mission- a standing alert of a handful of supersonic nuclear bombers, flying 24/7. This stuff was very real to the Soviets! That's in addition to the legions of other aircraft on various stages of ground alert and flying alerts throughout the world (and the other pieces of the nuclear triad: submarine launched missiles and ICBMs).

There's something about the MiG's resemblance to advanced concepts on Western drawing boards. To me this is actually unremarkable. Those shapes represented the state of the art of aerodynamics and engines at the time. East and West were both comparable, with each side having the lead in a few certain, specific areas but overall I don't think one side or the other held a clear lead overall, at least not for very long.

I've always found the MiG's ventral fins interesting. The feature shows up on a few of contemporary Mach 2+ aircraft (certain other Russian designs, F-16, SAAB 37) but not all. Again, an artifact of then-state of the art aerodynamics and control systems.

The part about "disposable" engines reminds me of the engines on the Me262, another world-beating interceptor with a lot of pragmatism baked into the design.


The MiG remains a really fascinating case study of stuffing the biggest engines available into an airframe that was possible for them to build with what they knew at the time, and an airframe that could get the job done. Go fast in a straight line while carrying large missiles.


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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2021, 21:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
Cool video. I remember reading an article from a journalist that went on a Fly in a MiG trip. The pilot went out to the MiG-25 and drained something into a cup and offered it to the journalist. When asked what it was through the translator, she was told he was drinking the coolant. I’m sure she was thinking antifreeze coolant and turned it down, but the MiG-25 uses or used to use nearly pure alcohol. :cheers:
Dave


I read a book by the Russian who sought asylum in the west with a mig25. the west was offering a huge reward to anyone who would deliver one. He said the use of alcohol (for cooling the brakes) was a huge issue of contention on his base. The wives of the men on the base thought it contributed to the delinquency of their men. The base commander said "nyet", the alcohol is needed! He said the radar system was poor and the rumored speeds were possible, but the engines needed replaced after those high speed runs that we were so concerned about.


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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2021, 23:12 
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For those who didn't view the whole video, we owe it to Russian Victor Belenko for defecting with a MIG 25 Foxbat to Japan so we could get our hands on one.

The honorable Japanese returned the jet to the Russians; disassembled, and packed in 30 crates, charging the Russians $40,000 for "shipping and handling." :D


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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2021, 08:36 
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https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/452372.MIG_Pilot

I read this book when it came out in the early 80's.

I would have to assume the Mig25 defection flight to Japan had some influence on the making of "Firefox".


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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2021, 23:01 
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The MIG-31 was/is the followon aircraft. Always reminds me of the NASCAR TV commentator who described one particularly fast car as being "all ate up with motor". These things are definitely that.


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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 08:27 
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https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboo ... oke-188489


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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 08:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/why-supersonic-soviet-mig-25-interceptor-was-joke-188489



Why the Supersonic Soviet MiG-25 Interceptor Was a Joke


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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 09:58 
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- Post-defection life in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Be ... ted_States
Quote:
After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, he visited Moscow in 1995 on business.
---------------
Belenko almost never appears in interviews. However, in a brief and informal bar interview in 2000 where he posed for pictures and responded to questions, he stated that he was happy in the United States. Belenko remarked in the interview that "[Americans] have tolerance regarding other people's opinion. In certain cultures, if you do not accept the mainstream, you would be booted out or might disappear. Here we have people — you know who hug trees, and people who want to cut them down — and they live side by side!"

The Soviet Union repeatedly spread false stories about Belenko being killed in a car accident, returning to Russia, being arrested and executed, or otherwise brought to justice.

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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 10:31 
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I flew a Prowler up to the Abbotsford BC airshow from NAS Whidbey in 91 and the Soviets (they were until Dec!) brought over a Mig-31 and a 25 plus the support aircraft. A couple things I remember.

- The KGB guys looked like their suits were made from crepe paper

- The primary construction tools used for the 25/31 appeared to be an anvil and a hammer.

Their older stuff I got to interact with at the Nellis petting zoo seemed much higher quality than those two newer jets.

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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 10:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
- The primary construction tools used for the 25/31 appeared to be an anvil and a hammer.

Several years ago a local aviation person had an airworthy MiG-21 at the airport. (Well, he was getting it airworthy and it was well on its way to getting in the air, unfortunately he suffered an untimely demise in an unrelated accident.) Up close it wasn't quite that crude, but the construction struck me as very expedient in many ways, in the fine old Soviet-Russian philosophy.

It's almost like the difference between a rat rod and a hot rod. Both of them go fast, one looks a lot nicer, but when you build them in the thousands to perform a mission then "nice" is only a minor consideration in the big picture.

I didn't think of that as a good or a bad thing though. That airplane's purpose was to carry a pilot, a radio, and a missile up to a given point in space—as high as 50,000 feet and Mach 2—and for hundreds of them to do it at the same time. For the rubles they put into building thousands of the things, I'd say they got very good value for their money.


Which is the "better" rifle? M-16 or AK-47? You could write a thesis arguing whether Kalashnikov's designs or Stoner's rifle have had a greater impact on the course of human history (and you still wouldn't have a definitive answer).


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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 10:52 
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A Georgian once said “there is a certain quality to quantity.” It really is brilliant engineering in its own right.

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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 11:12 
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In Russia, they build 'em like tractors. Stout, a little crude, effective. In America, we build 'em like exotic cars. The engineering is more advanced, but also more finicky. Our armed forces spend a lot more time working on them than they spend flying them.

I love the irony that the Soviets couldn't process enough titanium so they built most of the plane out of steel. Meanwhile, we built the SR-71 mostly out of titanium we bought from the Soviets.


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 Post subject: Re: MiG-25
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 11:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
I flew a Prowler up to the Abbotsford BC airshow from NAS Whidbey in 91 and the Soviets (they were until Dec!) brought over a Mig-31 and a 25 plus the support aircraft. A couple things I remember.

- The KGB guys looked like their suits were made from crepe paper

- The primary construction tools used for the 25/31 appeared to be an anvil and a hammer.

Their older stuff I got to interact with at the Nellis petting zoo seemed much higher quality than those two newer jets.


I was at that airshow and I agree with everything you said.


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