When I sold the Aerostar, I was satisfied that my "retirement" airplane, the Cessna 180, would fill my airplane "needs". The 195 was just icing on the cake and offers the same capability as the 180 with an "antique" flair. Our #1 "must get there" destination was/is D.C. where both children live. With four non-stop flights into Reagan every day and the advantage of being only a few miles from either of my children's homes, even the Aerostar seemed superfluous.

Then came Covid. Even if commercial were an acceptable option, there is one 6 a.m. non stop from MEM to DCA a day. Simply not an option. Flights to D.C. in the 195 and Amelia Island in the 180 over the last month have pointed out the shortcomings of a 140 knot, non turbo aircraft in graphic detail. Weather constraints and the inability to fly in the mid teens made both trips arduous. With either of my last two "traveling" airplanes, the Mooney Bravo or the Aerostar, both trips would have been non-events.

So, here I am and with my wife's "almost" complete approval to buy another, more capable, "traveling" airplane. Nothing will be sold to accomplish this so with the Cub, the 180, and the 195, I will be a four airplane owner.

Karen says that there are two acceptable airplanes; a Cirrus and a Cirrus. So, I'm here looking for input, but not on which brand of airplane, so be respectful and don't offer. Yes, I probably need got go over to the Cirrus site, but being as comfortable as I am with BT, I'd rather not. BT alone is a significant diversion in my life.

The airplane will have to have to have TC and AC. Deice in some form is highly desirable. I don't really want an airplane that is coming up on an overhaul. I want to fly it, not work on it.

My two big questions are:

1. The early turbos are turbo normalized. Any issues regarding these installations?
2. Before '08, only the Avidyne PFD/MFD was offered. Are those units fully supported and reliable?

The other big question is simply " how much do I want to spend". Capability here is not really the issue. My and my wife's penurious nature is. For $800,000, I can get everything in a very low time, late model airplane. For half that I can get, what seems to be, everything I need.

The turbo and Avidyne questions are paramount here.
Or direct me to the Cirrus forum.

Jg

An excellent choice, JGG. We loved ours for 3.5 years.

Jamie Steel has been the Cirrus sales and information guru for years; she will likely have in her inventory just what you need... https://www.steelaviation.com/

JGG, we'll be competing for a bird then

We should share notes before competing against each other.

Don C said it was a G3T with perspective as the option to get. That's what I'm searching for.

Thanks Arlen. I am planning on reaching out to the two dominant brokers, Lone Mountain and Steele this week.

Did yours have Avidyne?

Jg

I suspect the G3T should be the target. I'll PM my cell if you want to talk. At this point, I don't know much though. I am biding my time some what waiting for the sale of a piece of commercial property to close so I don't have to trespass on any invested funds.

Jg

Yes. We bought new in 2004, the G2 model.....when it had Avidyne and dual GNS430's. Did not have TN or air conditioning. Worked great for us..

I think there was just a Meridian for something like 500 or 700k for sale here on BT. Cabin class, TC, AC, FIKI, RADAR....wouldn't that be much better value for money? A lot more capability.

Yes. We bought new in 2004, the G2 model.....when it had Avidyne and dual GNS430's. Did not have TN or air conditioning. Worked great for us..

See the 9 kajillion threads and Cirrus - it's the chute that makes the wife grant approval. Not bang for the buck.

I targeted an NA G2, more value than a G3 although the G3 has some nice new features, just not worth the extra 50-75k with my wallet. The G1 is the best bang for the buck but there is no A/C even with an STC. That was a must for me. There's a thread on COPA about how few turbo/TN owners actually fly high enough to really take advantage of its performance. The NA will handle high altitudes plenty high with the possible exception of the Rockies' peaks in IMC or getting above winter ice. Not where I planned to be. So an NA avoids the higher maintenance and downtime of either boosted version. It's generally held that an NA is faster and better up to 8-10k, and only above 13-15k is the turbo/TN option faster and more efficient.

Join COPA and research away.

And yes, you can upgrade the navigators any number of ways. And the PFD and MFD are still supported. And generally reliable. Rumors are swirling there is an upgrade path in the works.

John - if you can find a Cirrus, you owe it to yourself to go play with the Avidyne avionics suite. If you're looking at an older bird which might have dual 430's (maybe only one of them WAAS-enabled) one of the budgetary line items I would pencil in near the top of the list is their replacement with Avidyne IFD440's. The man/machine interface that Avidyne has engineered is very good. You have to satisfy yourself that it's good enough FOR YOU.

As for support, some older units are in trouble but Avidyne has done a good job of keeping as much of their older product line as possible viable so that customers don't do a rip-and-replace with Brand G.

Not sure if you've had experience with TAT turbo-normalizing - some owners report it to be wonderful, some report it to be a maintenance hog. I believe the TAT installation matured somewhat following a bit of a rocky start with early installations. Having that turbo to keep the engine breathing up high would be a wonderful thing.

Oh, yes, FIKI via TKS weeping wing technology is nice. I suspect with two of you flying, full fuel, bags and full TKS tank will not be a problem. Just make sure both departure and destination airports feature an FBO capable of providing TKS fluid.

Now I'm going to sound the "ageist" bell. Please don't shoot the messenger. I know of one couple in the local area that went looking for a Cirrus but opted to purchase a different aircraft because both of them had more than a little difficulty getting into and exiting the airplane. I'm not saying this would be your case, however I bring it up as an item you and your wife need to put on your "to do" list when you test drive a Cirrus. Being comfortable in the airplane is of no use if you can't get out of the airplane when you have landed and really need to make a run for the bathroom!

John,

The Avidyne panels are fine from what I hear. I have two close friends who have/had them with no issues.

One of the things some brokers/Cirrus did to update earlier G2 or 3 models was to change out 430's for GTN 650's and add the digital DCF 90 autopilot. If you opt for an earlier model you might look for those. In older models pay attention to when the chute repack was done. It's not expensive, in the whole scheme of things, to repack but it's a PITA. Some owners upgraded paint schemes when that was done which make the earlier planes look really sharp. I think? that is what Nate Tinkle did.

I believe you will find that the the TN models by Tornado Alley were well done. I visited their shop in those days and found the installs to be very well done. The TN system itself is well proven and the one I had in an A36 was outstanding. George, of course, can give you more detail but I understood that the conversion from TN to TC had everything to do with Cirrus' having to take on the warranty liability on those installs where Continental was responsible in the TC install. George, IIRC, posted a lot of comparison photos of the two installs here, and perhaps on the TAT website you may want to look at. I'll get to my own experience in a minute.

One thing to check for on the TC's (and TN's too probably) is jug health. A lot of these planes need mid life tops. My friend's did.

Another broker to talk to is our own Neal Schwartz. Neal has bought and sold a number of Cirrus, including mine, and knows the planes well. He is also well connected in the Cirrus community, Cirrus brokerage community and Cirrus itself. That can be useful finding a good example. There is no one I trust more in aviation than Neal. Of course, you are well able to represent yourself.

Finally, I'd strongly urge you to consider a G5 or later as their were significant upgrades to the spar and gear among other things. This allows for a much higher initial flap speed which gives you much greater approach speed flexibility.

Another thing the G5 has is greater capacity fluid reservoirs for deice fluid. I can't recall if the G2's were FIKI or not. G3's were. The FIKI system is simply amazing. I've got photos somewhere of the airframe after landing in Duluth after 1.5 hours of flying in moderate icing. There were small accumulations on the wingtips, spinner and front of the wheel pants. Otherwise the airframe was clean. The system makes the boot and heated windshield system of my TBM look like an antique.

Get a turbo or TN airplane. Even if tempted otherwise you will be glad you did for the higher TAS and altitude flexibility. The NA planes are fine and I've had a couple of friends who have had them but the turbo just gives more flexibility.

I bought a G5 turbo new from Cirrus in 2013. I did that after the most aggressive flight test my salesperson, who has been Cirrus' leading sales person for many years, had ever seen. I was amazed by the flight envelope protections available on the Perspective with Garmin AP. After flying a precision approach with that AP you will think George has been imbibing in any other airplane.

I loved my Cirrus. I had an excellent ownership experience from delivery to sale. I found Cirrus one of the most customer centric organizations I have ever dealt with. My friend's who have purchased used aircraft have had similar experiences with support, assistance and so on even though they bought used. With that in mind I wouldn't hesitate to reach out to your Cirrus rep in your search. For one thing they may know of good examples not yet on the market. If Jeff Sandusky is your guy you are very, very lucky.

My wife really liked the plane too. And we flew it coast to coast. It is a great traveling platform.

My last suggestion is to take the Cirrus transition training. I know you're a CFI but I think you will benefit. I know you'll enjoy it. It may be free if you buy through a Cirrus "approved" broker.

If you have other questions feel free to ask here or PM me. In addition to Nate I'd recommend talking with Don Coburn who is currently flying the heck out of a G5.

John, we have a 2003 Cirrus with the Avidyne EFIS which has been upgraded to dual IFDs and the DFC90 autopilot. The Avidyne EFIS is showing its age compared to some of the newer screens, but it’s fully supported and reliable. Much easier to learn than the Garmin 1000, if not quite as fully featured.

The Avidyne airplanes are a bit undervalued in the used market.

My wife -hugely- prefers the 601P to the Cirrus, for the AC, pressurization, and better ride. It’s also much easier to load our 100# somewhat elderly Labrador in the Aerostar.

She will ride in the Cirrus, but only if the Aerostar is down for maintenance.

I was in both airplanes yesterday, the Aerostar is of course much faster, pressurized, and rides better, but the Cirrus is easier to fly and the DFC90 autopilot is in a whole different class compared to the ancient Century IV. I much prefer hand flying the Aerostar to the Cirrus, but in the real world when traveling I generally let the autopilot fly and the Cirrus just does it better.

We have the (non-FIKI) TKS system and it more than meets our needs as we avoid ice. It has worked well the few times we’ve used it.

Happy to give you a ride in you want to come up to M01. Ours is not turbocharged, but down low that makes little difference

John
Forgive me
As a former Mooney Bravo owner for the kind of money you are looking at you can buy an Eclipse
Fly above the storms in pressurized AC comfort and twin turbine reliability at more than twice the speed you are doing now
There are a lot of former Cirrus owners who have moved up to an Eclipse I am just suggesting cutting out a step
https://youtu.be/HnYyrcaNkgY

JGG - Both KHEF and KJYO have TKS. Also, I have been able to put TKS into aircraft on the ramp at Dulles Aviation at HEF. Just make sure to have a pad or paper towels handy and clean up any drips. KJYO is a booger about anything that drops onto their ramp be it fuel or alcohol or TKS.

I love the Aerostar and you were my inspiration to fly one. It is owned by an MEI. Momma bear, once I get the medical, wants me in an SR-22 versus a Baron or Aerostar with the same rental cost. It’s all about the chute and simplicity of operation.

JGG, if one of your primary destinations is DC and you’ll be doing this year round, then FIKI for me would be a must if it were my decision. I’ve flown in actual icing conditions in non-FIKI SR’s and believe me when I tell you there’s a HUGE difference between those and the FIKI birds. Off the top of my head, the differences include:

Flight tested and Certified
Higher TKS capacity with quantity gauges (non FIKI has no gauges)
Much higher flow rates
Dual TKS pumps
Vertical tail protection
Inboard wing protection
Dual windshield TKS sprayers (non FIKI only rely on prop slinger for windshield protection which isn’t nearly enough)

In short there is no comparison. You don’t want to be caught in Actual icing in a non FIKI SR22. Trust me. The FIKI bird handles ice like a champ and I dispatch into moderate icing on a regular basis, as long as I know I have an ‘out’ if conditions are worse than forecast.

FIKI birds start in 2009 model years which are also Garmin Perspective G3’s. As indicated above I would strongly recommend G3Ts for your mission which can be had in the 400k range.

PM me and I’d be happy to share my experiences with you.