banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 10:36 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Citation S2
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 21:13 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/15/18
Posts: 6
Aircraft: F33
I am looking for performance information on the Cessna Citation S2. Does anyone here operate an S2? I am curious as to the fuel burn 1st, 2nd and 3rd flight hour. Additionally what is the true airspeed and the normal operating range of the jet?

Thanks.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 21:30 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4946
Post Likes: +4779
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
1300, 1000, 1000, 1000, 800. 385kts, 1700nm. Amazing airplanes.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 21:37 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/15/18
Posts: 6
Aircraft: F33
Thank you.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 22:30 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/30/16
Posts: 1135
Post Likes: +1481
Company: OMALI
Location: Guatemala City, Other (MGGT)
Aircraft: 1967 Debonair C33A
Mike Tarver is a great guy to talk to for these platforms.

Now if you want to see a monster... look up the Sierra Citation Super SII.

I just recently learned about it and have been amazed that they don’t get more attention. With Williams engines it gets better performance on less fuel and you can put them on MSP.

Performance on par and in some aspects better than a CJ3 for 1/4 of the sunk capital... send it to JetTech for dual TXis and you have a jet that is better than anything new on the market, for soooo much less money.

If I am ever lucky enough to jump to the jet world, this is likely the platform. Once this world travel situation straightens itself out, we’ll be paying Mr. Tarver a visit, with the couple conversations we’ve had, he is a resource that you want to put on your team if you are serious about buying one of these planes.


Last edited on 23 Jun 2020, 05:39, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2020, 23:01 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 10/04/19
Posts: 653
Post Likes: +398
Company: Capella Partners
Location: Alpine Airpark, 46U
Aircraft: P35, TW Pacer
Username Protected wrote:
Mike Tarver is a great guy to talk to for these platforms.

Now if you want to see a monster... look up the Sierra Citation Super SII.

I just recently learned about it and have been amazed that they don’t get more attention. With Williams engines it gets better performance on less fuel and you can put them on MSP.

Performance on par and in some aspects better than a CJ3 for 1/4 of the sunk capital... send it to JetTech for dual TXis and you have a jet that is better than anything new on the market, for soooo much less money.

If I am ever lucky enough to jump to the jet world, this is likely the platform. Once this world travel situation straightens itself out, we’ll be paying Mr. Tarver a visit, with the couple conversations we’ve had, he is a resource that you want to put on your team if you are serious about buying one of the planes.


Out of morbid curiosity, what is the capex on a squared-away example that has a suitable amount of engine time remaining? Are they enormous runway hogs? Tough/expensive/unpredictable to maintain? Where's the catch?

-J

_________________
PPL AMEL
@jacksonholepilot on instagram
firstlast@gmail.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2020, 00:20 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 1845
Post Likes: +1819
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
I looked at a few SII ‘s. Cool planes with a lot of performance although the max range numbers were not usable with any sort of payload. Seemed like a really solid 1300-1400nm plane. A lot of them seem to have corrosion issues with the TKS wing - that appeared to be the main ‘gotcha’.

For a little more, the citation V seemed like a better deal although the panels Be messy. Really need a txi gtn setup in both.

A friend just bought an Ultra with gtn ‘s. Amazing plane and performance for the money. His has shiny paint too and looks brand new. Hard to imagine getting a cj2 when you can fly that.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2020, 04:03 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/24/07
Posts: 1242
Post Likes: +152
Location: Akron, Ohio
Aircraft: C550 - C560
Username Protected wrote:
I am looking for performance information on the Cessna Citation S2. Does anyone here operate an S2? I am curious as to the fuel burn 1st, 2nd and 3rd flight hour. Additionally what is the true airspeed and the normal operating range of the jet?

Thanks.


We operate both the S550 and the C550. Everybody's favorite is the S550, typically you can expect to burn 180-190 Gph block to block on anything less 600nm, over that we see about 155 to 160 Gph block. She’ll fly right to 400 at max gross while the straight two will only make it to 360 most days, both at gross. All our C550’s have the gross weight increases. 395 TAS typically for the S550’s.

Range is more than anyone wants to sit in an aircraft, the plane carries 5800lbs. Your best planning tools are ForeFlight Performance or Fltplan both are pretty accurate on range and fuel. Just for fun I’ve run periodic flights from San Diego to Maine non stop.

We love that damn plane except for the TKS, the guy who put that on there should be shot, six pumps, geez. Who the hell thought this was a good idea is beyond me.

Gary


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2020, 05:28 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/30/16
Posts: 1135
Post Likes: +1481
Company: OMALI
Location: Guatemala City, Other (MGGT)
Aircraft: 1967 Debonair C33A
Here are some numbers from the free information in the Conklin De Decker app, regarding the Super SII.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2020, 05:49 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/30/16
Posts: 1135
Post Likes: +1481
Company: OMALI
Location: Guatemala City, Other (MGGT)
Aircraft: 1967 Debonair C33A
Username Protected wrote:
I am looking for performance information on the Cessna Citation S2. Does anyone here operate an S2? I am curious as to the fuel burn 1st, 2nd and 3rd flight hour. Additionally what is the true airspeed and the normal operating range of the jet?

Thanks.


If you have an iPhone or iPad, download the Conklin and De Decker app, has all that basic information for free. Once you get to the point of wanting OPEX numbers pay the subscription.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2020, 08:12 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4946
Post Likes: +4779
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
Username Protected wrote:
Mike Tarver is a great guy to talk to for these platforms.

Now if you want to see a monster... look up the Sierra Citation Super SII.

I just recently learned about it and have been amazed that they don’t get more attention. With Williams engines it gets better performance on less fuel and you can put them on MSP.

Performance on par and in some aspects better than a CJ3 for 1/4 of the sunk capital... send it to JetTech for dual TXis and you have a jet that is better than anything new on the market, for soooo much less money.

If I am ever lucky enough to jump to the jet world, this is likely the platform. Once this world travel situation straightens itself out, we’ll be paying Mr. Tarver a visit, with the couple conversations we’ve had, he is a resource that you want to put on your team if you are serious about buying one of the planes.


Out of morbid curiosity, what is the capex on a squared-away example that has a suitable amount of engine time remaining? Are they enormous runway hogs? Tough/expensive/unpredictable to maintain? Where's the catch?

-J


The ref speeds on SIIs are insanely low...like 83kts light. It's far and away the shortest short field performer of all the legacy Citations. Easy to get it stopped in 1,500 ft. 2,500 ft runways are easily usable. Lots of expensive TKS pumps and lines is probably the main downside. The rest is just a Citation.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2020, 09:06 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/24/14
Posts: 1754
Post Likes: +2213
Username Protected wrote:
The ref speeds on SIIs are insanely low...like 83kts light. It's far and away the shortest short field performer of all the legacy Citations. Easy to get it stopped in 1,500 ft. 2,500 ft runways are easily usable. Lots of expensive TKS pumps and lines is probably the main downside. The rest is just a Citation.

Why is the SII so much faster (in cruise) than the II? Different P&W engine?

_________________
Jay


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2020, 09:53 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4946
Post Likes: +4779
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
Username Protected wrote:
The ref speeds on SIIs are insanely low...like 83kts light. It's far and away the shortest short field performer of all the legacy Citations. Easy to get it stopped in 1,500 ft. 2,500 ft runways are easily usable. Lots of expensive TKS pumps and lines is probably the main downside. The rest is just a Citation.

Why is the SII so much faster (in cruise) than the II? Different P&W engine?


Same 2500lb thrust but you can run it to 106 at altitude instead of 104. The wing is super clean Citation V wing...low drag.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2020, 00:39 
Online


 Profile




Joined: 03/04/13
Posts: 2568
Post Likes: +1234
Location: Little Rock, Ar
Aircraft: A36 C560 C551 C550S
I’m flying an SII on a 2000 nm round trip tomorrow. I also fly an Ultra, 501SP, 551SP, 550, 550 Bravo, and a V (560) that I owned and just sold recently. They all have their place. My fave? The Ultra. That said, a good S550 gives a lot of range and performance for the money. I believe that was the launch airplane for NetJets. That’s could be why so many of them have 10,000+hrs airframe time.
As for the Williams powered conversions, I wonder how many were done. The good news is they should be great performers. The bad news is the owners will be subscribing to the engine mafia.

Robert T


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2020, 01:33 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/10/09
Posts: 3601
Post Likes: +2565
Company: On the wagon
Location: Overland Park, KS (KLXT)
Aircraft: 1978 Baron 58
Had an S/II for a couple years at a previous company. Great load hauling ability, flew nice. 380-390 knots average, 1500 first hour, 1000 each after is what we planned.

There are some high dollar maintenance items on it, like the thrust reversers and we went through two A/C compressors. They can't slip much due to being low to the ground, so if you frequent airports with cross-winds, you'll eat tires, or we did at least.

TKS is kind of annoying because you have to have it on before encountering ice for it to really work. Which means, if that cloud MIGHT have ice, you're using fluid. We always cleaned it after any use of TKS. Didn't have any corrosion issues. We also flew often, so it didn't get old. The current rumor is that the corrosion is caused by using old TKS fluid.

_________________
Stop in flyover country and have some BBQ!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2020, 07:37 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4946
Post Likes: +4779
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
The SII is a "poor" man's V and I mean that as a huge compliment to the airplane. It's the U2 of the Citation fleet too with a wonderful wing.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.camguard.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.